What About No Topcoat?
20 replies to this topic
Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:54 PM
I took 1 of my jointed swimbaits and made a mold using Alumilite HS2 and poured their 2 part white resin. I painted few today using some Com-Art and Createx acrylics, heat set them and hung them in our 112* heat for a few hours. How would the paint hold up if I didn't topcoat them? Because these aren't wood I only need to protect the paint so is the 2 part Epoxy I normaly use really needed?
Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:44 AM
I am pretty sure the paint is not water proof. Musky Glenn
Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:16 AM
Even if it was waterproof it will most likely scratch off easily. Take your fingernail and see.....
Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:56 AM
Yes I used dye but the cost factor is high. Painting first then top coat is best.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:37 AM
The paint will hold kinda IF HEAT SET but keep in mind these are waterbased paints. Once heat set they are meant to hold up to being washed on fabrics where they have something to bind to. On my prototypes i used to give a quick spray just to give a little color when testing but i would never think about doing that on a lure i planned on using/keeping for awhile. If you are planning on using them a few times i would (I dont reccomend this just saying as a bare min) use a spray polly clear that comes in a rattle can. AGAIN this is for a bare min protection layer but the best thing to do is use one of the many Top Coats disscussed on the forum.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:38 AM
I've not tried that, but would be concerned about the working time for one thing. You would have to mix the epoxy, then mix the paint with the epoxy and then paint the lure. And no way would I take a chance on spraying it through an airbrush. First of all you would have to thin the epoxy so much to get it to spray through an airbrush that I don't know if the epoxy would retain it's protective capabilities and you also take the chance of it starting to cure inside the airbrush. That could cost you a new airbrush.
They do make epoxy paints that are used in industrial applications, but I don't know if they could be adapted to our use.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:55 AM
It was just a thought Ben. I didn't consider the airbrush; I was focused on a brush.
Another additive to epoxy could be highlight powder that we use in softbaits.
Was also thinking of slow-set epoxy not the 5 minute one. Much more working time.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:03 AM
Hadn't thought about the highlight powder. That would definitely be something worth considering. I've mixed flake in with epoxy and applied it with a brush before and that worked really well if done properly. There could well be a slower setting epoxy that I'm not aware of, but even the 30 minute brand that most of us use for sealing and top coating lures only has a working time of 5 to 7 minutes with the addition of a few drops of denatured alcohol.
I wasn't trying to shoot down your idea and sorry if it seemed that way. New ideas are what keeps our obsession moving forward after all.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:49 PM
A lot of factory lures don't seem to have a clear coat, just paint that shines. But then they honestly don't look as good as the ones shown on this site. There are paints out there that will shine on their own but they aren't water based paints. All this drives up the cost and ease of cleaning up. It is usually a trade off on what you want to end up with and how many lures you are painting at a time. I just marvel at how good clear coats make a sorry paint job look. That is what brings out the twinkle in my eye. Some of the sorriest paint jobs you will find are on factory wood musky lures. Very little durability. A lot of them need a clear coat straight from the factory. Musky Glenn
Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:16 PM
you could spray auto paint thru the airbrush amd clear coat with auto clearthat would work alittle better then water base paints but you would still have to clean the airbrush well
Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:18 AM
Never thought that Ben. My mind can go 900 miles an hour when I'm thinking and I tend to spit out ideas quite quickly. After all that's what TU is for, right.
I don't use an airbrush(even though I own 2) so it never entered my mind.
I've been thinking about the highlight thing for a while even though I use holigraphic foil as a base.
Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:02 AM
You've got me thinking about the highlight powders Nova. If they can be mixed with a clear medium and sprayed through an airbrush I'm thinking you could get some pretty interesting results. Do you have a certain brand that you like or are they all pretty much the same? Are the highlight powders like the pearls that can be added to paint? Thanks............Ben
Edited by RayburnGuy, 11 August 2012 - 09:11 AM.
Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:55 PM
I used the Alumilite powder brushed into the mold and it comes out OK and durable but you can't real do any detail work. I put a sprayed only piece in the pool for about 16 hours and the heat-set paint stayed on well. Rubbing it with my finger didn't take it off but rubbing with my fingernail peels it right off. After it dried off it was just like before it went in the pool, tough and can't be easily scraped off. So I determined that it still needs some kind of protectant topcoat to protect the paint although not the swimbait body as it's resin. A rattle can spray with a poly might be enough to do that but I did a single coat of 2 part epoxy topcoat. It looks great and should be very durable.
These new resin swimbaits came out even better than I hoped. They have great action. Now instead of 2 hours of wood work it is a 30 minute pour process. Assembly is the same but no sealing the wood and wait to dry and off gas, the base coat and wait to dry and off gas. Final painting is the same but with only 1 coat of epoxy and not worrying about all of the tight joint areas getting gummed up and cleaned out it goes much faster. Before a build might take 4 days with the wait time for paint and epoxy, now I could start a new swimbait in the morning and be fishing it tomorrow. No blow-ups either.
Edited by quickdraw, 12 August 2012 - 03:57 PM.
Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:27 PM
You might , will, run into problems if you don't let that resin off gas before painting it.
Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:12 PM
Post curing resin castings in an oven @ 150d for an hour or two, is well worth your time. Rowhunter is dead on about off gassing these plastic castings. They "cook" for a coupla days at room temps even though you cant tell or see any difference. Patience. Make many castings at one time and post cure them. They will be stronger, an wont have any reactions to finishes.
Learned the hard way.
Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:32 PM
The 4 I built so far sat for a few days and then after I painted them I hung them in the sun for a day. Here in the Mojave that was 114* in the shade so these should be OK. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll keep that in mind for future builds.
Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:44 AM
I use the powders from Lurecraft Ben. I think that they are pretty much all the same though. It's a very fine powder so i don't think it will be any problem spraying it if you can mix it in the clear.
Posted 13 August 2012 - 11:44 AM
114!!! The fish you catch will be cooked before you can release them!
Of course, in the Mohave, that will be a dry heat, so you probably should use a marinade in your livewell. Hahaha
Seriously, no paint is going to hold up well without a top coat. Dipping in a water borne urethane is a great way to go with non-wood lures, since water intrusion is no longer an issue.
Edited by mark poulson, 13 August 2012 - 11:44 AM.