Wine Barrel Crankbait? Where Should I Put The Line Tie?floating lipless crankbait
22 replies to this topic
Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:51 PM
Hey Crankbait experts,
I want this thing to suspend or barely float, and dive to 10+ feet on retrieve. Do you guys think that's possible? Where should I put the line tie?
FYI, I've placed three weights in the belly and hollowed it out with rattling SS balls.
It also still smells like wine. Do you think that smell will bleed through the paint and epoxy clear? Maybe fish like the smell of wine?
wb2.JPG 434.12KB 70 downloads wb3.JPG 129.35KB 96 downloads wb1.JPG 213.08KB 76 downloads
Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:51 PM
No expert but my thoughts are free.......
Have no idea if possible.But I think your line tie should go about the middle of your ring finger. Nice that you found a use for the barrels. I am guessing wine is cheaper by the barrel too.
Edited by littleriver, 19 October 2012 - 03:52 PM.
Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:08 PM
So do you think it should go right in the middle of the bill like a standard crankbait or higher up like a lipless?
Thanks for chiming in,
Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:17 PM
I am surrounded by the wine industry, literally, so I just get the old barrels, empty, unfortunately. I wish I could afford a barrel of Napa Valley Wine!
Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:41 PM
All I can add is that I think you're going to have to make several prototypes to see how a lure shaped like that and ballasted like that will work best.
I'm guessing a conventional bill, extending approx. half the body length out, and aligned parallel with the centerline of the bait would be a good starting place. You'll need a bill that's at least 1 1/4" long, plus whatever goes into the bait, to get it to dive down to the 10' range.
Be sure that the lure hangs down at a 30-45 degree angle at rest, with the tail out of the water slightly. Any lower, and it won't back out of snags when you release pressure on it. You don't want to hang it up and lose it.
I think it may be too round for a rattle trap-type hook and line tie arrangement.
If you look at the forehead of a rattle trap (I'm thinking of the Yozuri 3D Vibe) the fore head is grooved, with a channel running from the nose back to the line tie. I'm guessing it's there to act as a cupped bill, and to start the wiggle action. But that particular trap is thin, with almost flat sides, and only weighs 3/8oz.
If you go the trap route, try copying the hook and line tie layout of a trap that size. Then begin playing with ballast, and maybe flatten the sides a little as another option.
I haven't tried to make a trap because it is a very difficult shape to get to swim properly, when you make it out of anything except hollow plastic filled with BBs.
Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:40 PM
Aren't wine barrels made from oak? That's pretty heavy wood. Hope you did a floatation test before you ballasted it.
Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:55 PM
It is French Oak to be specific and full of wine, so I did do a float test and I had to add 3/16 more lead on the belly to get it to almost suspend(barely float) with hooks and rings. It is hollowed out for the ss ball rattles. All of my topwater stuff is made from Poplar.
Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:02 PM
I knew you would have answers! I am trying to make a hybrid lipless that acts more like a billed crankbait. The only floating lure with a wide wobble and deep dive that comes to mind is a kwikfish. Mine is shaped nothing like that, but I was hoping that with a big beveled nose and thinner body, I could get a new type of lipless crankbait. I think I will start with the line tie just above the half-way spot on the bill and see what happens.
Posted 20 October 2012 - 04:54 PM
Sorry to reply so late John . Hard to tell from the picture how wide your built in bill is ? But if you go too high with it the bait will just roll out . Taking the line tie towards the nose will mean less depth and tighter action. You could try a few spots easily since your working with wood . I would weight it with a nose down attitude. One problem is going to be the fact that the bill and support for is is all buoyant. I think this will work against your 10 ft goal by preventing you from getting a good diving angle. Good luck...........
Posted 21 October 2012 - 03:10 AM
French Oak for American wine?? Sacrilige
I've made up a few, but mine come from planks that go in stainless tanks rather than barrel staves. I work in a winery, so get freebies
Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:24 PM
A crazy day of testing and mods! Three trips to the pond, 7 little bass, and a huge hawk!
SO, I initially put the line tie at the top of the beveled bill portion and it blew out right away. It wouldn't even try to swim. I then moved the line tie to the exact center of the oval that makes the bill, and it swam with a medium wobble and hunted side to side (2 feet in each direction) but wouldn't dive more than a couple of feet. So I added another 1/16 weight in the nose, so it now sinks at a VERY SLOW rate (1 foot every 5 seconds). On the third test the lure worked surprisingly well with many different presentations.
1. I started with a slow steady retrieve and it would hunt and swim at 5ft without blowing out. I got two fish like this.
2. Then I worked it like a suspending jerkbait in the 5-10 foot range, and picked up a couple more.
3. Since it sinks so slowly, I was able to work it like a dying fish in the top 6” of water with quick snaps of the line. This method only landed one small bass, but a huge hawk ambushed my lure out of nowhere and tried to fly away with it! Luckily it didn't get hooked and I was able to yank it free. I've been fishing this pond, almost daily, for years and have seen lots of hawks but never had one try to hit my lure.
4. I cast it to the middle of the pond and waited for a good minute and then started a slow retrieve along the bottom. I could feel some ticks from rocks or sticks all the way back, so I know it was hunting the bottom! This should work well when the water temp drops.
As you can see from the pics, I need more practice painting fish! It is much different that painting mice and rats!
I love that the bait “hunts” left to right, but I’m not sure why. Does anyone know? Is it on the verge or blowing out or off balance or not symmetric?
Thanks for your help, everyone! I will post videos soon.
Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:26 PM
If it caught 7 fish and fooled a hawk into grabbing it I wouldn't change a thing. If I wanted something with a different action I'd build a whole new bait. Seems like this one is working pretty well.
Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:40 PM
Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:54 PM
Sounds like a keeper. I look forward to seeing the video.
Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:18 PM
If I made that lure my only concern would be worrying if I could duplicate it.
Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:48 AM
Thanks, it was a bit of a whim and have yet to swim it in anger yet. Was hoping to keep a bit more of the color of the wine, but it darkens up considerably with a clear over the top.
I live in Australia in North East Victoria and work in the Glenrowan wine area (it's tiny even by Oz standards! Known for it's fortifieds mostly), but have worked in a few other areas here and in New Zealand as well.
Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:47 AM
I am going to make a duplicate just to see if it will "hunt" like this one.
Does anyone understand what makes a crank hunt left to right in addition to a wobble?
Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:52 PM
OK, I now see why nobody has replied regarding the hunting crank!
Here is the non-answer to my question. http://www.tackleund...ge__hl__hunting
When I find the key to making a hunter, lipped or lipless, I will post it! Thanks for the challenge, guys!
As soon as it stops raining I will post a video of my lipless hunter, that I accidentally made.
Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:47 AM
Here is the first teaser video with no fish, just the bait swimming. I am going to chase some lunkers with it in the next couple of days and then post another video. Thanks again for your help.