Aiden James Lures Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hey Crankbait experts, I want this thing to suspend or barely float, and dive to 10+ feet on retrieve. Do you guys think that's possible? Where should I put the line tie? FYI, I've placed three weights in the belly and hollowed it out with rattling SS balls. It also still smells like wine. Do you think that smell will bleed through the paint and epoxy clear? Maybe fish like the smell of wine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) No expert but my thoughts are free....... Have no idea if possible.But I think your line tie should go about the middle of your ring finger. Nice that you found a use for the barrels. I am guessing wine is cheaper by the barrel too. Edited October 19, 2012 by littleriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 No expert but my thoughts are free....... Have no idea if possible.But I think your line tie should go about the middle of your ring finger. Nice that you found a use for the barrels. I am guessing wine is cheaper by the barrel too. So do you think it should go right in the middle of the bill like a standard crankbait or higher up like a lipless? Thanks for chiming in, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I am guessing wine is cheaper by the barrel too. I am surrounded by the wine industry, literally, so I just get the old barrels, empty, unfortunately. I wish I could afford a barrel of Napa Valley Wine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 All I can add is that I think you're going to have to make several prototypes to see how a lure shaped like that and ballasted like that will work best. I'm guessing a conventional bill, extending approx. half the body length out, and aligned parallel with the centerline of the bait would be a good starting place. You'll need a bill that's at least 1 1/4" long, plus whatever goes into the bait, to get it to dive down to the 10' range. Be sure that the lure hangs down at a 30-45 degree angle at rest, with the tail out of the water slightly. Any lower, and it won't back out of snags when you release pressure on it. You don't want to hang it up and lose it. I think it may be too round for a rattle trap-type hook and line tie arrangement. If you look at the forehead of a rattle trap (I'm thinking of the Yozuri 3D Vibe) the fore head is grooved, with a channel running from the nose back to the line tie. I'm guessing it's there to act as a cupped bill, and to start the wiggle action. But that particular trap is thin, with almost flat sides, and only weighs 3/8oz. If you go the trap route, try copying the hook and line tie layout of a trap that size. Then begin playing with ballast, and maybe flatten the sides a little as another option. I haven't tried to make a trap because it is a very difficult shape to get to swim properly, when you make it out of anything except hollow plastic filled with BBs. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Aren't wine barrels made from oak? That's pretty heavy wood. Hope you did a floatation test before you ballasted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Aren't wine barrels made from oak? That's pretty heavy wood. Hope you did a floatation test before you ballasted it. It is French Oak to be specific and full of wine, so I did do a float test and I had to add 3/16 more lead on the belly to get it to almost suspend(barely float) with hooks and rings. It is hollowed out for the ss ball rattles. All of my topwater stuff is made from Poplar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 All I can add is that I think you're going to have to make several prototypes to see how a lure shaped like that and ballasted like that will work best. I'm guessing a conventional bill, extending approx. half the body length out, and aligned parallel with the centerline of the bait would be a good starting place. You'll need a bill that's at least 1 1/4" long, plus whatever goes into the bait, to get it to dive down to the 10' range. Be sure that the lure hangs down at a 30-45 degree angle at rest, with the tail out of the water slightly. Any lower, and it won't back out of snags when you release pressure on it. You don't want to hang it up and lose it. I think it may be too round for a rattle trap-type hook and line tie arrangement. If you look at the forehead of a rattle trap (I'm thinking of the Yozuri 3D Vibe) the fore head is grooved, with a channel running from the nose back to the line tie. I'm guessing it's there to act as a cupped bill, and to start the wiggle action. But that particular trap is thin, with almost flat sides, and only weighs 3/8oz. If you go the trap route, try copying the hook and line tie layout of a trap that size. Then begin playing with ballast, and maybe flatten the sides a little as another option. I haven't tried to make a trap because it is a very difficult shape to get to swim properly, when you make it out of anything except hollow plastic filled with BBs. Good luck. I knew you would have answers! I am trying to make a hybrid lipless that acts more like a billed crankbait. The only floating lure with a wide wobble and deep dive that comes to mind is a kwikfish. Mine is shaped nothing like that, but I was hoping that with a big beveled nose and thinner body, I could get a new type of lipless crankbait. I think I will start with the line tie just above the half-way spot on the bill and see what happens. Thanks again, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Sorry to reply so late John . Hard to tell from the picture how wide your built in bill is ? But if you go too high with it the bait will just roll out . Taking the line tie towards the nose will mean less depth and tighter action. You could try a few spots easily since your working with wood . I would weight it with a nose down attitude. One problem is going to be the fact that the bill and support for is is all buoyant. I think this will work against your 10 ft goal by preventing you from getting a good diving angle. Good luck........... Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonline Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 It is French Oak to be specific and full of wine, so I did do a float test and I had to add 3/16 more lead on the belly to get it to almost suspend(barely float) with hooks and rings. It is hollowed out for the ss ball rattles. All of my topwater stuff is made from Poplar. French Oak for American wine?? Sacrilige I've made up a few, but mine come from planks that go in stainless tanks rather than barrel staves. I work in a winery, so get freebies Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 A crazy day of testing and mods! Three trips to the pond, 7 little bass, and a huge hawk! SO, I initially put the line tie at the top of the beveled bill portion and it blew out right away. It wouldn't even try to swim. I then moved the line tie to the exact center of the oval that makes the bill, and it swam with a medium wobble and hunted side to side (2 feet in each direction) but wouldn't dive more than a couple of feet. So I added another 1/16 weight in the nose, so it now sinks at a VERY SLOW rate (1 foot every 5 seconds). On the third test the lure worked surprisingly well with many different presentations. 1. I started with a slow steady retrieve and it would hunt and swim at 5ft without blowing out. I got two fish like this. 2. Then I worked it like a suspending jerkbait in the 5-10 foot range, and picked up a couple more. 3. Since it sinks so slowly, I was able to work it like a dying fish in the top 6” of water with quick snaps of the line. This method only landed one small bass, but a huge hawk ambushed my lure out of nowhere and tried to fly away with it! Luckily it didn't get hooked and I was able to yank it free. I've been fishing this pond, almost daily, for years and have seen lots of hawks but never had one try to hit my lure. 4. I cast it to the middle of the pond and waited for a good minute and then started a slow retrieve along the bottom. I could feel some ticks from rocks or sticks all the way back, so I know it was hunting the bottom! This should work well when the water temp drops. As you can see from the pics, I need more practice painting fish! It is much different that painting mice and rats! I love that the bait “hunts” left to right, but I’m not sure why. Does anyone know? Is it on the verge or blowing out or off balance or not symmetric? Thanks for your help, everyone! I will post videos soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 If it caught 7 fish and fooled a hawk into grabbing it I wouldn't change a thing. If I wanted something with a different action I'd build a whole new bait. Seems like this one is working pretty well. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 French Oak for American wine?? Sacrilige Cool little lure, Steve! What part of the country are you in? I've made up a few, but mine come from planks that go in stainless tanks rather than barrel staves. I work in a winery, so get freebies Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Congratulations! Sounds like a keeper. I look forward to seeing the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If I made that lure my only concern would be worrying if I could duplicate it. Great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonline Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Cool little lure, Steve! What part of the country are you in? Thanks, it was a bit of a whim and have yet to swim it in anger yet. Was hoping to keep a bit more of the color of the wine, but it darkens up considerably with a clear over the top. I live in Australia in North East Victoria and work in the Glenrowan wine area (it's tiny even by Oz standards! Known for it's fortifieds mostly), but have worked in a few other areas here and in New Zealand as well. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If I made that lure my only concern would be worrying if I could duplicate it. Great job! I am going to make a duplicate just to see if it will "hunt" like this one. Does anyone understand what makes a crank hunt left to right in addition to a wobble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I am going to make a duplicate just to see if it will "hunt" like this one. Does anyone understand what makes a crank hunt left to right in addition to a wobble? OK, I now see why nobody has replied regarding the hunting crank! Here is the non-answer to my question. http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/25233-a-couple-questions-on-building-a-hunting-crank/page__hl__hunting When I find the key to making a hunter, lipped or lipless, I will post it! Thanks for the challenge, guys! As soon as it stops raining I will post a video of my lipless hunter, that I accidentally made. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Congratulations! Sounds like a keeper. I look forward to seeing the video. Here is the first teaser video with no fish, just the bait swimming. I am going to chase some lunkers with it in the next couple of days and then post another video. Thanks again for your help. http://youtu.be/injB55NvRSY John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Looks good AJ. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 If I didn't know better, I'd say that minnow was drunk. Great action I would say! Got any of that wine saoked lumber left? I know a bait I need to copy. Good work!!! Thank you for sharing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) If I didn't know better, I'd say that minnow was drunk. Great action I would say! Got any of that wine saoked lumber left? I know a bait I need to copy. Good work!!! Thank you for sharing!! There is no shortage of wine staves around here, but any hardwood should work. I hollowed it out from the belly to the tail, installed some SS balls to act as a rattle and weight transfer system. Then I put (4) 1/16 weights in the belly (two in front, one in the center and one in the tail). It turns out to weigh exactly the same as a similar size rattletrap, but it suspends instead of sinking like a rock. Edited October 26, 2012 by AJLures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Thank you! I am sure it is a little harder to duplicate the action of this bait than your average crank. But that won't deter me from trying . Fantastic unique hunting action! And from your testing, we know bass like it too. Really nice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
