Solarez Sweating?

[A-Mac]

I'm still working on the learning curve to getting the best clear. The biggest issue I've had though has been the lure "sweating" when heat setting the paint.

I am using solarez as a sealer coat first, then painting, then clearing. However, when the lure "sweats" from heat setting, it ruins the paint.

Has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks.

[RayburnGuy]

Just wondering, but have you tried "heat setting" the bait before applying paint but after sealing with Solarez? Does it still "sweat"? If it does there must be something in the Solarez that's releasing when heat is applied. It may be you could "sweat" it all out before painting. Seems like I read in the other thread that Solarez has some sort of wax that comes to the top during the curing process. Have you tried wiping the bait down before painting with something that would remove this wax? Just thinking out loud.

Ben

[bass100]

Just don't use as much heat when heat setting and it won't sweat..

[CedarLakeMusky]

What are you using to heat set? Heat gun or hair dryer?

CLM

[A-Mac]

hair dryer... even the UV lamp makes it sweat.

I think I figured out the problem... I think its the resin I used for the bait body. I did a couple pours while I was painting, and I noticed my pours weren't developing right... as well having a very wet surface. We're having some funky weather down here in Texas right now, so maybe it's messing up stuff.

[Cougarftd]

I used it to seal a balsa bait and did not have that occur

[A-Mac]

I used it to seal a balsa bait and did not have that occur

Ok, it must be the resin. However, this brings up an interesting point. Does this mean that Solarez is actually porous if it allows the resin to sweat through?

[mark poulson]

Ok, it must be the resin. However, this brings up an interesting point. Does this mean that Solarez is actually porous if it allows the resin to sweat through?

That's a question you should probably ask the Solarez people directly.

I know that fiberglass with resin will absorb water, so it's sealed with gelcoat. Maybe the molecules in whatever is offgassing from your baits is smaller than a water molecule, so it passes through the Solarez.

[A-Mac]

That's a question you should probably ask the Solarez people directly.

I know that fiberglass with resin will absorb water, so it's sealed with gelcoat. Maybe the molecules in whatever is offgassing from your baits is smaller than a water molecule, so it passes through the Solarez.

True, based on the lures I've thrown with it... I'm satisfied. They seem to hold up quite well and I haven't had any appear to take on any water. I would like to ask them more about curing for the glossiest finish.

What I have started doing is the following:

I suspend the lure into the nail light.

1Light on- 30 seconds

2Rotate lure- light on- 30 seconds

3No light- ~30 seconds

Repeat 2 more times, I then let it cure for about 4 more minutes on each side.

I'm sure there is still an even better way.

[Cougarftd]

I just do 30 minutes on 30 minutes off flip it every other time. It is cured after about 21/2-3 minutes. It seems to me not thinning in microwave, straight from the bottle (thicker) gave me a glossier finish.

[bobv]

There are volumes of info out there on different resins, here is one I found particularly interesting comparing epoxy vs polyester resins.

The Advantages of Epoxy Resin versus

Polyester in Marine Composite

S t r u c t u re s

Introduction

In any high-tech structural application, where strength, stiffness,

durability and light weight are required, epoxy resins are seen as the

minimum standard of performance for the matrix of the composite.

This is why in aircraft and aerospace applications, as well as

offshore racing boats, epoxies have been the norm for years.

However 95% of pleasure boats under 60 feet today are still made

with polyester resin. The main consideration for materials selection

for most composite builders is cost, with performance and more

importantly value for money often being a secondary consideration.

As a general rule epoxy resins are twice as expensive as vinyl ester

resins and vinyl ester resins are twice as expensive as polyesters.

Since the resin can constitute 40 to 50% of the weight of a

composite component, this price difference is seen as having a

significant impact on the cost of the laminate.

However, when considered against the cost of the whole structure

(the boat) the cost is relatively insignificant, and the value of higher

quality and long term gain of better durability (therefore better resale

value) can be tremendous.

What contributes to this better value…..?

Epoxy resins have performance advantages over polyester and vinyl

esters in five major areas:

■ Better adhesive properties (the ability to bond to the

reinforcement or core)

■ Superior mechanical properties (particularly strength and

stiffness)

■ Improved resistance to fatigue and micro cracking

■ Reduced degradation from water ingress (diminution of

properties due to water penetration)

■ Increased resistance to osmosis (surface degradation due to

water permeability)

Adhesive Properties

Epoxy resins have far better adhesive properties than polyester and

vinyl ester resins. However many times have you known a polyester

car body filler fall off a ding repair? The superior adhesion of epoxy

is due to two main reasons. The first is at the molecular level, where

the presence of polar hydroxyl and ether groups improves adhesion.

The second is at the physical level - as epoxies cure with low

shrinkage, the various surface contacts set up between the liquid

resin and the reinforcement are not disturbed during cure. The result

is a more homogenous bond between fibers and resin and a better

transfer of load between the different components of the matrix.

High adhesion is especially important in resistance to micro-cracking

(see later) and when using sandwich construction. The bond

between the core and the laminate is usually the weakest link of the

laminate, and the superior adhesive properties of the epoxy resin

greatly increase the strength of the interface between skins and

core.

Mechanical Properties

Two important mechanical properties of any resin systems are its

tensile strength and stiffness. The figure below shows results of

tests carried out on commercially available polyester, vinyl ester and

epoxy resin systems, either cured at room temperature or post

cured at 175°F.

After a cure period of seven days it can be seen that the tensile

strength of the epoxy resin is 20 to 30% higher than those of

polyester and vinyl ester. More importantly, after post cure the

difference becomes ever greater. It is to be noted that boats built

with polyester resins are rarely post cured in the workshop while

boats built with epoxy quite often are. However, in practice all boats

can quite often see “natural” post cures – particularly dark coloured

surfaces under a Caribbean sun!

The consequences are two fold:

Structurally

A post-cured epoxy laminate will exhibit tensile strength and

modulus (stiffness) close to double that of a non-post cured

polyester or vinyl ester laminate.

Cosmetically

Polyester and vinyl ester resins shrink up to 7% volumetrically and

because the resin continues to cure over long periods of time this

effect may not be immediately obvious. This cure accounts for the

print through effect observed on a lot of older polyester boats. In

comparison, epoxies shrink less than 2% and an epoxy laminate will

be a lot more stable and have better cosmetics over a long period

of time than a polyester one.

Comparative Tensile Strength of

Resins

Comparative Stiffness of ResinsFatigue Resistance and Micro-Cracking

In most cases a properly designed hull laminate will never be

subjected to its ultimate strength so physical properties of the resin

matrix, although important, are not the only criteria on which a

selection has to be made. Long before ultimate load is reached and

failure occurs, the laminate will reach a stress level where the resin

will begin to crack away from those fiber reinforcements not aligned

with the applied load. This is known as ‘transverse micro-cracking’

and although the laminate has not completely failed at this point, the

breakdown process has commenced.

The strain that a laminate can take before micro cracking depends

strongly on the toughness and adhesive properties of the resin

system. For relatively more brittle resin systems, such as many

polyesters, this point occurs a long way before laminate failure, and

so severely limits the strains to which such laminates can be

subjected. In an environment such as water or moist air, the microcracked laminate will absorb considerably more water than an

uncracked laminate. This will then lead to an increase in weight,

moisture attack on the resin and fiber sizing agents, loss of stiffness

and with time, an eventual drop in ultimate properties.

The superior ability to withstand cyclic loading is an essential

advantage of epoxies vs. polyester resins. This is one of the main

reason epoxies are chosen almost exclusively for aircraft structures.

Typical FRP Stress/Strain Graph Typical Resin Stress/Strain

Curves (Post-Cured for

5 hrs & 176°F)

Degradation from Water Penetration

An important property of any resin, particularly in a marine

environment, is its ability to withstand degradation from water

penetration. All resins will absorb some moisture, adding to a

laminate’s weight, but what is more significant is how the absorbed

water affects the resin and resin/fiber bond in a laminate, leading to

a gradual and long-term loss in mechanical properties.

Both polyester and vinyl ester resins are prone to water degradation

due to the presence of hydrolysable ester groups in their molecular

structures. As a result, a thin polyester laminate can be expected to

retain only 65% of its inter-laminar shear strength after immersion

over period of one year, whereas an epoxy laminate immersed for

the same period will retain around 90%.

Osmosis

All laminates in a marine

environment will permit very low

quantities of water to pass through

them in vapor form. As this water

passes through, it reacts with any

hydrolysable components inside

the laminate to form tiny cells of

concentrated solution. Under the

osmotic pressure generated, more

water is then drawn through the semi-permeable membrane

provided by the gelcoat in an attempt to dilute this solution. This

water increases the fluid pressure in the cell. Eventually the pressure

will distort or burst the gel coat, leading to a characteristic “chickenpox” surface.

To delay the onset of osmosis, it is necessary to use a resin that has

both a low water transmission rate and a high resistance to attack

by water. A polymer chain having epoxy linkages in its backbone is

substantially better than polyester or vinyl ester systems at resisting

[mark poulson]

That's a great read!

Thanks for finding and posting it

[hazmail]

Thanks Bob, great info and for a change relativaly easy for us layman to grasp.

Pete

[Brent R]

I just do 30 minutes on 30 minutes off flip it every other time. It is cured after about 21/2-3 minutes. It seems to me not thinning in microwave, straight from the bottle (thicker) gave me a glossier finish.

I sure he means seconds...... not minutes

[Cougarftd]

Oops...(seconds)

[mark poulson]

Do you use the polyester gloss or the low VOC?

[CedarLakeMusky]

I tried the low voc and couldn't get the surface to dry. It was always tacky. Solarez thought I had a bad batch. I decided to switch to the gloss resin but I'm still waiting for it in the mail. I believe cougarftd is using the gloss resin.

Edited December 13, 2012 by CedarLakeMusky

[Cougarftd]

correct

[A-Mac]

The latest lure pics I posted in the gallery are the gloss solarez. I've been dipping. However, you have to let it drip for a few minutes before hitting it with light. If you get too impatient and don't let it drip long enough, the surface will come out very dull.

[Nathan]

A-Mac,

Are you heating it to thin it before dipping?...Nathan

[Brent R]

Do you use the polyester gloss or the low VOC?

Solarez Polyester Gloss Resin

Edited December 14, 2012 by Brent R

[mark poulson]

Rather than heating the resin, how about heating the lure before you dip it, so the heated lure body thins the resin and helps it drip off more quickly?

That way, you wouldn't have to heat a whole batch of resin.

[Nathan]

That's a good Idea Mark...The Techs. At Solarez said that the heating and cooling of the resin will have no ill effect on it...Nathan

[A-Mac]

Nope... just dipping and letting it drip for about 3 minutes. I only have to use 1 coat to cover the edges of the eyes. So I figure that is plenty thick enough. I've been working in about 60-65f temperatures.