Mr.Nsmith

Clearcoat Option?

61 posts in this topic

 If I thought about the money aspect of this lure building thing I would have quit long ago.  We don't do it to save money, its a hobby and most hobbies get expensive.  You can buy 10 of  any store bought baits  WAY cheaper than you can construct one from scratch . Just sayin .......

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Like the other guys have said if your trying to get into lure building to save money then you might ought to think of something else to do with your time. Now if you plan on eventually doing it as a business then you should still plan on spending at least a year (and that's really cutting it short) to develop the necessary skills to do so. Some of the reasons most of us got into this is because we're dedicated fishermen who enjoy working with our hands. There's also the thought that we can build custom baits that fit a specific need that lure manufacturers don't offer. And there's always that little spark in the backs of our minds that we might come up with the next big thing that takes the fishing world by storm. I would venture to say that the builders at TU who only build baits for ourselves, or a few friends, do it more out of love of what we can do more than anything else. There's just something about catching fish on something that you built from scratch. That's something no lure manufacturer can offer.

 

I can understand operating on a tight budget. A lot of us have that same problem. I doubt if anyone decided one day that they were going to build lures and went out and bought everything they needed all at once. That's one reason I tried to steer you toward epoxy. If you decide, for whatever reason, you don't like it as a top coat there are lots of other things your going to need it for.

 

What it all boils down to is your going to have to make some choices. We can't make them for you. I know what it's like wanting to start something new. Your all fired up and can't wait to get started. This is one hobby where spending some time doing some research is going to save you a ton of money. You can see how much trouble your having just trying to choose a top coat. Wait until you start making decisions about airbrushes, paints, tools, etc. Not trying to overwhelm you as the folks here at TU will do their best to try and guide you with whatever problems you run into. This can be a very satisfying hobby, but like any hobby it's going to cost money and there's definitely going to be a learning curve. No way around it.

 

Ben

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@RayburnGuy....ok....I love createx paints, I have a wonderful gravity feed airbrush, I have no problems with blanks, and...it's just one question I just want to have this one, just this one question that I want it to be answered with no other words with the response (unless it's a important "bad" knowledge about it) which is: Which is  the better dipping clear coat at a reasonable price per volume, won't yellow after many times, won't scratch much, will cure fast but not in bad way, clear coat in container won't harden up if in heated/ or cold room, and a quality gloss?? thank you for knowledge and your patience...

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@Brent R: I was making a example the overwhelming-ness of cost for a clear coat.....

And also I have myself deep in bass fishing and I know I won't take myself out of bass fishing for a long time even if I might turn into a  dirt poor man with one shoe and sell blood plasma to get $$ I well always bass fish as much as I can...

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Also, I don't have a UV light bulbs like the rest of you guys do neither the possible $$$ you guys have so to buy couple of expensive clear coats and specialized light bulbs from the internet... and it's wintertime in Indy so there's no bright enough light and it's cold outside..

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As far as a "dipping clear coat" I'll leave that for others to answers. In my opinion DN is the best dipping clear coat, but because of it's temperamental storage issues I wouldn't recommend it to you. It's also a little on the expensive side and if your going to be dipping you will end up losing a good bit of the product because every time the container is opened it's exposed to moisture in the air and that's what starts the curing process.

 

If you can convince yourself to brush DN on your lures then the storage issues are a little easier to deal with. By using the "tap the can" method you do away with exposing the product to the atmosphere and therefore don't experience the loss of DN by promoting curing in the can.

 

There are several other top coats that have not been mentioned that some folks here at TU use that I have no personal experience with. I'll leave that up to them to chime in with their own opinions.

 

good luck,

Ben

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Also, I don't have a UV light bulbs like the rest of you guys do neither the possible $$$ you guys have so to buy couple of expensive clear coats and specialized light bulbs from the internet... and it's wintertime in Indy so there's no bright enough light and it's cold outside..

 

If you use epoxy ...you need a lure turner ..so you have to build one...cost money

 

If you use Dick Nite S81 you have to deal with storage issues. and you have to buy bloxygen to keep it from going bad...that cost money.

 

If you use auto clear it cost more money ( not cheap ) and you have to be set up to spray it...cost money

 

If you use Solarez ....the uva light cost money

 

I don't think i left to much out....but if i did ...it cost money

 

Trust me .....most of us don't have money running out our ears...but if you want to build lures or paint lures it cost money. I know you want a simple answer to your clear coat ?????  But it's just not that simple...All of the guy's that paint or build had to start somewhere and they had the same type ????? including myself.....So your not talking to a bunch of rich guys with nothing else to do with their money. It takes time and patience and yes a few dollars to get started....And i wish you all the luck in the world finding the answers to all you ?????  We all ask each other ?????s everyday...

 

And i to love bass fishing...if i could fish everyday i'd be the happiest guy in the world. But my health just want let me.

 

good luck, Brent

Edited by Brent R

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 I  have used a water based clear floor type poly by dipping it  for 3-4 coats and it comes out absolutely fantastic on everything , but it does not like enamel metalflakes and will peel off in sheets quickly after only a few fish...nothing is cheaper than this for the results, but since I like my metalflakes I switched to automotive paints, clears and everything, this is expensive but I  go and get left over stuff from body shops so in reality I  have very little in it and the finish is awesome and extremely durable.

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@Sonoman....what type of brand you use( for the clear coat ..is it spray can or needs to be airbrush on the bait)?

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If your thinking about spraying auto clears you need to be aware of the health hazards. It is highly carcinogenic and you'll need a respirator that's rated for organic vapors. You can find them at auto parts stores that cater to auto body repair shops or some of your big box hardware stores will carry them. I picked mine up at Lowe's for around $40.

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I sprayed auto clear MCU's, and the only benefit I can attest to is the high production aspect. The costs go way up for safety issues, so I went away from this technique for that reason.

 

MCU's are bad medicine for your brain, even if you just dip a few lures. DN and any of the high VOC (auto clears) products will hurt you good.

 

So, one time, I said to myself- "I'll be OK w/out my respirator, Im just gonna dip a few (in DN), and get out quick". Didnt feel like myself for 2days. Ha ha. Not.

Now; I always obey the voices in my head that tell me to not be stupid.

Sorry if this is off topic.

Edited by markinorf

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Well from what Brent R said and RayburnGuy and Markinorf

auto clear coat-> possible health problems I don't need

epoxy-> need rotating device: does not seem really hard to make....hopefully

solarez-> need special lite n itself

D. N S81-> storage problem

Etex-> heard a lot pblms about it

.....Devcon 2 ton clear 30 min epoxy seems to be the one 2 start with.....so on that bombshell, after learning I need to heat the finish painted b4 applying clear coat to prevent paint smearing...does the amount of epoxy affect the action of the bait? How long does the 2 tubes last as in being for 3"-4" x amount of lures (how many lures I can possible coat with D2T)? How slow/fast the rotator needs to be? how many coats I need roughly? Thank you all of your guys' Inputs to the clear coats.

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NSmith, taking a look at the can in your first post, I see it is an interior grade water based polyurethane.  Several TU members have tried similar products.  I've tested some myself.  I thought it looked great on the lure and was hard and scratch resistant .... until I got it wet for awhile and it absorbed water, turned white, got soft, and started coming off my test lure in sheets.  If you want to try polyurethanes, I'd suggest an exterior grade solvent based product.  That's JMHO.

 

Look, clearcoats are probably the area of crankbait making fraught with the most confusion and differences of opinions.  You're talking to a whole community of builders who have different experiences and outlooks, etc.  Several good options have been mentioned in this thread.  Choose one, search the forum for more info on it and decide for yourself whether its the right one for you.  Sorry if you thought it would be a "Duh, this is the ONE" deal - but it just ain't that way.  You seem frustrated at the lack of a clear declaration and in turn, some TU'ers get frustrated when a newbie doesn't seem to appreciate their honest attempts to share their experience.

 

If cost is a deal breaker for you, buy a 30ML double syringe of Devcon Two Ton for a couple of bucks and it will be enough to do several baits.  But put in the time and do a search to find out how to measure, mix, and apply it so you will get good results.  It's the simplest, cheapest way I know to get a good durable clearcoat on a crankbait.  If that's too much trouble, you're probably not gonna like working with crankbaits.  

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Squeeze out enough D2T to coat your baits into a small container.  I use a baby food lid lined with aluminum foil.  Coat a maximum 1 or 2 baits at a time because it will begin to harden as soon as it's mixed.  I'm assuming the paint on the bait is dry.  Mix the hell out of it - really mix it.  Shake in a FEW drops of denatured alcohol and mix them in to thin the mixture just a little.  That will extend the brush time and help expel any bubbles.  Use a fine bristle brush and apply the epoxy in smooth strokes, making sure to hit every area on the bait and never brushing with a dry brush.  Don't worry about the hook hangers, just coat over them and clean them later.  You have about 4 minutes before D2T begins to get too hard to brush it on easily.  Rotate the bait for about 45 minutes to prevent sags or drips.  A rotation anywhere between 2 rpm and 10 rpm is fine.  You can even do it by hand, putting hooks on the nose and tail and switching the bait up/down every little while until it firms up.  It will be hard enough to lightly handle in about 5 hours and hard enough to fish in 24 hrs.  Epoxy has a density only slight more than water, so it will not significantly affect the buoyancy of most baits.  One coating of D2T is enough for any bass bait.  If you brush it right, there will be no bubbles in the epoxy.  If there are, breathe on them and they will pop.  I do not recommend heating the epoxy after it is applied, nor heating the lure before it is applied.  Just do it at room temperature on a  room temperature bait and it will work fine.  After the epoxy has cured hard, you can use a small drill bit in a Dremel to clean the epoxy out of the hook hangers.

 

You can clean the brush in lacquer thinner or acetone and use it again.

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BobP, youve done everything you possibly could to help this guy except do it for him.... 

 

devcon 30 does not completely set in 30 minutes. its temp specific just like anything else.. if its cold there.. it will still sag without a turner.. and if you dont use gloves when handling your lure, the devcon will fisheye and if you dont heat set the paint it could wrinkle the paint. 

 

so many variables and what ifs

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One more thing about D2T or any epoxy.....you can not use it on baits that have a square edge..like a rattle trap....because when you turn the lure the epoxy will pull away from the edges and you will not get good coverage on the edges....

 

good luck, Brent

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As I had said I extremely do appreciate the knowledge and expertise of the more well knowledge individuals here in TU...once more:thank you....and I feel guilty of having to say which is the better clear coat 'cause I only "hit top skin" of clear coats when I first researched and I didn't know that it was this "deep" in such description and overwhelming-ness of unknown possibilities of clear coats...so my apologies for the generic q that always seems to pop up and to the TU members whom are "frustrated" with that...presuming about the exterior grade solvent product from BobP what you'd said you have tried this or some one else has....what were the results from that testing?? And thank you for the knowledge of D2T..it's greatly appreciated..

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When I first started I tried saving some money by trying every urethane product lowes and Home Depot sells. None worked to my liking, so I went to Hobby Lobby used a 40% off coupon and got some etex for 10$, built a turner out of an old microwave and have been happy with that, because of the easiness! I still try other topcoats, like d2t, bob smith, acc, dn, and now I am gonna try solarez! But I would start with etex or d2t to begin!

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sorry  I  have not been on since  I  made that post, I  use a Nason automotive clear, nothing in a rattle can and I  use an Iwata eclipse air brush, obviously a well ventilated area is needed and I  definately dont breathe the stuff on purpose, I  made a  small paint booth out of a card board box with a couple of fans sucking the fumes away to the outside, we aren't talking about a lot of volume so it hasn't been a problem for me doing it this way, if you have any breathing issues at all I  would stick to water base stuff and clears that have little in the way of fumes.

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Nsmith, I wasn't recommending you try other polyurethanes, just suggesting that if you DID want to experiment with them you start with exterior grade solvent based polyurethanes that will be more waterproof than water based ones.  I've followed TU Hardbaits for almost 10 years and there are really only a few clearcoats that have gained wide acceptance among TU builders:

 

Epoxies (30 min slow cure, rod guide, and decoupage epoxies)

Automotive Clearcoats - professional 2 part mixes only - not rattle cans

Moisture cured urethanes like Dick Nite S81

Solarez UV cured resin (the latest contender)

 

These all produce a durable waterproof topcoat but there are big differences among them as to application techniques, safety concerns, storage requirements, etc.  You'll may notice one thing - they all have to "cure" after application to be tough enough to last on a crankbait.  None of them are simple "spray it and let it dry" products you would find on the shelf at you local Home Depot.

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I've tried several different products. Devcon 2t is my preference. I use a drop of denatured alchohol, mix good and apply with cheap paint brush. I never mix a lot because it gets hard fast, usually just enough for about 2-3 lures. My dryer is a rotisserie, broom stick and clothes pins. You can get 9 oz bottles of d2t on eBay for about $14. That will do probably 75-100 lures if not more. You get a clear, hard finish. It takes a little to get used to using it but once figure it out I'm sure you'll be satisfied. You can also add glitter to finish easily.

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Amazing clear cast (you'll see it here as ACC) is my preferred topcoat. I get it at Hobby Lobby for around 12 bucks with the 40% off coupon. I build a batch of about 4-5 lures (but could do more) mix up the ACC, dip 'em, hang 'em and after 24 hours dry time either dip 'em again ( usually not necessary) or wait another 72 hours (again, probably overkill on my part) and fish 'em. ACC stores as easily as D2T or almost any other two part, has a high gloss finish, has a "self healing" aspect that I really love and isn't quite as hard as the othe epoxies. I have only been at this for a year or so but the ACC hasn't shown any signs at all of yellowing.

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For me, a hobby builder who likes to fish what he builds, PVC and Solarez have translated into being able to build a lure, paint it, topcoat it, and fish it the same day.

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Mark, you are just to darned impatient!  It's SUPPOSED to take hours to shape, hours to sand, hours to paint, and then DAYS to wait while the topcoat you choose hardens.  My God!  If we all built crankbaits in a day, we'd be over-run with the danged things.

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