RayburnGuy

Something To Be Aware Of

17 posts in this topic

I normally use super glue for gluing in hook hangers, line ties, ballast, etc. I ran out of super glue the other day and have been using 30 minute epoxy for this until the next order of super glue arrives. I use a syringe with a large bore needle to shoot the epoxy in the drilled holes. The needle isn't usually long enough to reach the bottom of the hole so I try to poke it down to the bottom of the hole with a piece of wire. This, to say the least, is a hit and miss deal.

 

The temps have been a little on the cool side so after gluing in one of the hook hangers I placed it close to a ceramic heater. Not directly in front, but a little off to the side. Apparently their was an air pocket at the bottom of this particular hole and it expanded from the heat. When I went back to check on it an hour or so later I noticed the hook hanger had been partially pushed out of the hole. 8O:mad::cry:

 

Just wanted to pass this on so hopefully it will save someone else from this headache.

 

Ben

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What type of hangers are you using?If your using screw in stainless eyelets dnt drill the hole as deep inject glue then screw the eyelet in so it screws into the timber.Or if your using twisted wires make then a tough longer than the drilled hole pre fit twisted wire dry with out glue.Cut the twisted wire to lenght recheck then inject glue and refit twisted wire twisting it as as you go this should reduce airpockets.You must make shore that the hole that your injecting glue into has glue coming out of the hole.Aftr twisting in hook hanger wipe of excess glue and all should be good.

 

 Cheerz Seagull

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It's those little details that gets me.  Thanks for the tip.  I will try to remember to position the bait with the hook hangers up so gravity can help hold the ballast in while the epoxy cures. But at my age I'm having trouble remembering all those little details.

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I had a similar experience years ago with the lip of a crank.  Glued a bunch up and set them on my wheel and had a lamp over them as I was working.  Came back later and to coat the cranks and noticed one bill was all crooked.  The crank warmed just enough that a bubble swelled from the line tie and worked its way along the back of one side of the bill and push that side up just slightly.  A skin had formed on the devcon so as small "balloon" had formed on that end of the slot.

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It really doesn't matter how tight the twisted wire fits the hole as to whether or not air can get trapped. Nor does cutting the length of the twisted wire to the exact depth of the hole. If the needle your using to inject the epoxy doesn't reach the bottom of the hole there can always be the possibility of an air pocket. Even buttering the twisted wire with epoxy before installation will not guarantee a 100% epoxy joint. When the wire is inserted into the hole the air has to go somewhere. If the wire is short the pocket can be trapped at the bottom. If the wire goes all the way to the bottom then the air pocket can move up the hole, but not necessarily all the way to the top where it can escape. Any of this is going to force epoxy out of the hole so there's really no way of knowing whether or not you have air trapped just by epoxy being forced out. If you had a really thin and runny epoxy it might be a different story. You can thin epoxy with denatured alcohol, but I don't like to thin it with more than a couple drops because I'm afraid it can weaken the epoxy.

 

This is not a problem with the thin super glues as they are thin enough that you can pour them down one side of the hole. By being so thin they can fill the bottom of the hole first and force any air out.

 

Ben

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Can you post a picture of the lure?  I can't seem to visualize how a hook hanger can pop out if it's standing upright. I can see if you were using gorilla glue which expands and could've pushed the hanger out, but epoxy?

 

I'm baffled!

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It didn't pop all the way out Seeking, but it did move the eye of the hanger close to 1/8" away from the bait. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't the epoxy that caused the hanger to move, but an air pocket at the bottom of the hole that expanded as it got warm and pushed on the epoxy and hanger. Think of the air pocket as the oil in a hydraulic cylinder. Expanding air acts pretty much the same way as oil being pumped into a cylinder. It pushes against everything that surrounds it and the weakest point is going to be what moves. The weakest point being the still soft epoxy.

 

Ben

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I have had this happen to me once, when I was in too much of a hurry and placed the lure in my PoP drying box. Not necessarily a bubble that you created, lots of expanding air in the wood, fighting to get out. I bet it is a mistake you won't make again :nuhuh:

 

Dave

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Ok, it's just that when I read your first post you mentioned that you poked it with a piece of wire and it still managed to move.  If you're using epoxy again, wiggle whatever it is you're inserting to remove the air bubble.  It works good for me when I'm inserting ballast.

 

Thx

S54

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I have had this happen to me once, when I was in too much of a hurry and placed the lure in my PoP drying box. Not necessarily a bubble that you created, lots of expanding air in the wood, fighting to get out. I bet it is a mistake you won't make again :nuhuh:

 

Dave

 

 

I don't know about not making that mistake again Dave. The older I get the more Homer Simpson moments I seem to have. I probably won't tell anyone about it though. :halo:

 

Ben

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Ok, it's just that when I read your first post you mentioned that you poked it with a piece of wire and it still managed to move.  If you're using epoxy again, wiggle whatever it is you're inserting to remove the air bubble.  It works good for me when I'm inserting ballast.

 

Thx

S54

 

When I mentioned the wire I meant to say I was trying to poke the epoxy down into the hole before inserting the twisted wire. This was done to try and get the epoxy all the way to the bottom of the hole. Should have made that clearer.

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Ben, I use D2T with handmade screw eyes and do the same as you did - poke epoxy into the hole with a wire, then butter the threads of the screw eye and push it into the hole.  But I never heat a lure while it has wet epoxy on it or in it.  I've never had a screw eye come out in thousands of baits, so it works for me.

 

I don't know what it is about wanting to heat epoxy to make it cure quicker.  It only resulted in screw-ups when I tried it early in my bait making hobby.  I eventually learned that it is the Crankbait Gods telling me that impatience is a sin punished by screwed-up crankbaits.  Now I know to apply the glue or finish and Walk Away to let it do it's thing.  How long will it be?  As long as it takes.

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Bob, it wasn't that I was trying to make the epoxy cure faster by placing it close to the small ceramic heater. It was pretty cool in the house that day and I was worried about the epoxy creating enough exothermic heat to facilitate the curing process. It has to get fairly cold in the house before I turn the heat on. I wear sweats and a hoodie and stay plenty warm without running up the gas bill. It has to get under 40 degrees outside before I even think about turning on the heat. Don't remember exactly what temperature range the epoxy is supposed to work at, but it seems like the lower limit is in the mid 50's. It very well could have been that cool in the house so that's why I placed it close to the heater.

 

Ben

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thanks for this info rayburnguy, im about to start epoxying in my screw eyes and would of never thought that this could happen, which kind of super glue you use to glue in hook hangers?

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Ben, you're tougher than me!  I won't even go fishing on days with less than a 50 degree high.  I'm not sure whether epoxy requires the exothermic reaction to cure or whether the heat is just a byproduct of the process.  I'm sure heat speeds up curing and cold slows it down but in my experience, it's gonna cure eventually no matter what.  I regularly glue up baits and leave them to harden in my garage in temps in the low 40's and high 30's.  I haven't tried at even lower temps; not because I think it wouldn't work but because I ain't gonna work on baits in a really freezing garage.

Edited by BobP

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thanks for this info rayburnguy, im about to start epoxying in my screw eyes and would of never thought that this could happen, which kind of super glue you use to glue in hook hangers?

 

I don't think this experience is something that is going to happen on a regular basis. It was probably a result of all the circumstances lining up to make this happen. The only reason I posted my experience was so maybe somebody else wouldn't make the same mistake.

 

I've used several different brands of super glue and have had good luck with all of them. The super glues come in different thicknesses. Just be sure to get the "thin" variety as the thicker ones won't easily flow into the bottom of a hook hanger hole. I was using the Zap-a-Gap brand until recently when someone here at TU mentioned the Stick Fast brand at Highland Woodworking. The Zap-a-Gap is around $25 for 4 ounces while the Stick Fast brand is About $37 for 16 ounces. If you decide to order some of the Stick Fast just be aware that the tip on the 16 oz. bottle is fairly large and it would be a good idea to order the CA Glue Squeeze Pak. It's only $2.50 and will make getting the glue into small holes a lot easier. It's on the same page as the CA glue at the bottom of the page. You'll also need some accelerator. The accelerator causes the glue to set up instantly so once you have things positioned correctly you don't have to set around holding parts in place while the glue sets up. The accelerator I've tried came with a spray nozzle, but you end up wasting a good bit of it by using the spray nozzle. What I've started doing was taking a piece of 1/8" wire and dipping it in the accelerator. The drop that will cling to the wire is then allowed to drip on the joint I want to set up. Very little waste doing it like this.

 

If there's anything else I can help you with just holler. Here's the links to the glues.

 

Ben

 

http://www.supergluecorp.com/zap-brand-products

 

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ca-glue.aspx

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Ben, you're tougher than me!  I won't even go fishing on days with less than a 50 degree high.  I'm not sure whether epoxy requires the exothermic reaction to cure or whether the heat is just a byproduct of the process.  I'm sure heat speeds up curing and cold slows it down but in my experience, it's gonna cure eventually no matter what.  I regularly glue up baits and leave them to harden in my garage in temps in the low 40's and high 30's.  I haven't tried at even lower temps; not because I think it wouldn't work but because I ain't gonna work on baits in a really freezing garage.

 

It's not that I'm tough Bob. Just been really hot natured all my life. The heat here in Texas during the summer is when I have trouble. I get so hot it makes me ill. And that's only gotten worse with age. A lot of the guys I used to work with thought I was nuts when it would get cold in the winter. They would be wearing enough clothes to go on an Arctic expedition and I would be working in a t-shirt.

 

I'll keep your experiences with epoxy in mind should I decide to glue up any hook hangers when it's cool in the house. Thanks for the info.

 

Ben

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