Thad

Solarez Haze?

38 posts in this topic

I've posted on here about the haze I am getting and some said they have it too but I'm doubting it's this bad. I can't have dark colors look like this. I shined a light into the container and could see some kind of cloud of film on top. Does anybody else see this in their container? Maybe I got a bad batch.

 

I'm using Createx paints for what it's worth.

 

spoon.jpg

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I see the same thing in my Solarez.  I assume it is wax they put in it.  As I understand it (maybe not all that well), when curing, the wax rises to the surface of the coating and "suffocates" the resin so that it can form a hard, non-sticky surface.

 

I don't think you got a bad batch - it's probably just the nature of the beast.

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Did you read the post about polishing the Solarez in the other thread?

 

Ben

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I am sorry, but I can't see using a topcoat that dries to a haze.

 

???

Exactly! I understand all of the benefits are great but if this is the end result then I wouldn't use it if I was selling my products. I tried to polish it some but didn't like the results either. 

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I can't I would use it if I sold baits because presentation to the customer is critical.  I hope there may be ways to minimize surface hazing other than polishing the topcoat - which I have no intention of doing.  I've tried Solarez on some light colored baits and any hazing is invisible to me, so I'm not giving up.  I have a batch of dark craw pattern baits I'm just finishing up, so I'll try it to see the results.  I'm hoping an on/off UV cure regimen will help avoid the problem.  No, I don't think it will ever be as nice a topcoat as the flawless epoxy topcoats I've seen on Fatfinger's baits.  Then again, I never see ANY baits, commercial or custom with that nice a topcoat.

 

I only build baits to fish them and I'm not dissatisfied with the results so far and don't think the bass will care one bit.  And it is super easy/fast to use.  If nothing else, I'll continue to use it as a bait undercoating.

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Bob after Solarez have you dipped any hazy baits into DN LPTC S-83 to make them high gloss shiny?

Just wondering.

John

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I dip my baits in Solarez, and haven't noticed any haze, so far.

Maybe it depends on geographic area, or local humidity?  

I live in Los Angeles, near LAX.

Edited by mark poulson

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When I dip a bait and hang it in the sun I tend to get the haze. When I hang it over a cheap black  light I bought at Walmart with two mirrors "teepee'd" over the bait I get much much better results.

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ive done several black back lures i brushed solarez on with and then just set out in the sun to cure and i havent had any trouble with hazing or cloudyness. I brush on with a cheapo kids craft brush and use thin coats. I usually go over it twice with the brush to get it even and total coverage before setting it out to cure in sunlight.

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John - I haven't tried putting DN on top of Solarez.  If the haze is a wax component in the Solarez, it probably wouldn't help.

 

It would be "gilding the lily" to use both.  If I thought I needed to use DN over Solarez, I'd just stop using Solarez.  I'm pretty sure Solarez is not as clear and tough as DN.  If there were not the infernal storage problems with DN, I'd never use another topcoat.

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If that haze is wax or any other residue, I wouldn't put anything on top of it. It would have to be removed to assure the second coat would adhere to the first. 

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If you cure with the right process it want haze over......If you just put it under a light till it's cured or put it out in the sun till it's cured....it will haze over. Go read the solarez thread and it tells you how to cure it right...

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Yeah, I think a UV on-off-on cure regimen is the way to go.  Now, the best timing for that remains to be seen.   My jug says 15 second bursts of sun followed by 30 seconds of shade for "dual cure" with MEKP and sunlight, repeating until full cure is obtained.  But it doesn't give a schedule for using a UV light and no MEKP.  I'm envisioning platoons of surfboarders running in and out of their garages like ground hogs.

 

I tested it on a white lure first, so can't really say anything about hazing.  I tried 30 seconds on, 30 off for 3 mins and it cured hard.  I'll give it a shot on some craw pattern baits this week and see if it hazes.

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30 on and 30 off did nothing to help the haze for me. I have used both the eBay nail light and the GE black lights. Same result so far. 

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Got a reply from a Solarez tech.

 

"That sounds like the resin cured with wax mixed in the matrix. Put the resin down and allow about two minutes for the wax to rise and separate itself from the resin matrix (before curing)."

 

So I made sure to do this. Used a 15 second on,  30 second off, 15 second on,  30 second off and then 30 and 30 until cured.

 

End result....

 

5b3bddb5-fe3d-4c37-b87e-f43d9ee143ee.jpg

Edited by Thad

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Thad, can you try that process , Createx & Solarez, on a piece of wood, to see if you get the same result?

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Well, I did a dark red and black craw pattern lure in Solarez tonight.  I got the same haze Thad reported.  I stirred the Solarez to dispel some of the waxy coating on the liquid's surface, dipped the lure, let it drip for a couple of minutes, then cured it in a nail UV dryer 15 seconds ON, 30 seconds OFF for several minutes, which is the schedule recommended on the jug.  The ambient temp was about 55, the Solarez temp was about 70, the humidity was high (it's raining here).

 

Aghast at the results, I immediately wet sanded the lure with 1500 grit, which removed the haze but left a frosty white surface.  When the lure is wet, you can't see any haze but it looks like crap when it's dry.  I did not get this problem on a light shad color bait on which I brushed Solarez in an initial test.  I put up the Solarez, dipped the rest of the batch in moisture cured urethane (MCU), then dipped the Solarez lure in MCU too.

 

Who knows where I went wrong?  Temperature, humidity, dipping vs brushing, UV cure schedule?  I haven't figured this stuff out! But I won't be using it on dark painted lures anytime soon, until I can avoid the hazing problem.  I don't sell crankbaits so having a pristine jewel-like finish is not a priority - but there are limits, even for me.

 

Incidental observation:  When clearing the hook hangers with a Dremel and micro drill bit, the Solarez seems harder and tougher than epoxy.  It becomes a very fine white powder when sanded or zipped out of hook hangers.

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one question i have for those of you who are getting the haze - how long are you letting the lure sit after dipping/brushing before you set it in the lights?

 

I havent noticed any hazing problems but i brush mine on and let it sit about 20-30 minutes to even/settle out the brush strokes, and then i just set them outside to cure in the sun, no on/off times, just 5 min in the sun and flip lure over to get the other side.

 

Im wondering if its caused by trying to cure the lure to cure too quickly after applying. The reason im thinking that is since it seems alot of you are setting it under the lights after just a few minutes to drip off the excess. Could it be that simple of a solution perhaps?

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I suspect that a few different things are going on.  I have tried to create the haze and I got it two ways. 

 

1) I touched up some spots with a red Spike-IT marker and did not let it dry for more then about 10 minutes.  The result was a serious Haze.  When I put the Solarez over some that had dried over night, the results was a haze free coat.

 

2) I dipped a bait and I only let it drip about two minutes instead of the 7 or more minutes.  This left a much thicker coat and that coat gave a serious Haze.  When I did another bait that I dipped at the same time, but left for probably 10 minutes, then the coat was much thinner and the haze was not there.

 

I wonder if the Haze people are getting is the result of either some form of contamination or from too thick of a wet coat.  UV is blocked in the first few fractions of an inch, especially UVa.  It is possible that the deeper coat is not curing completely.  Also, because the UV cures the surface so fast, I suspect that the wax, etc., is not able to migrate out if the coat is too thick.

 

How does this fit with those of you getting the Haze?

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I have been allowing the samples to sit for bout 5 minutes. I will go test 10 minutes. I do love the fact that I can do testing several times without having to wait hours to see the results.I'll be back in a few to report.

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I dip, hang for five minutes+-, clear the tail drip and hook hangers, hang for another five minutes+-, clear the tail drip and clean out the hook hangers again, and then hang them in the nail light.

I think I may cure differently than the manuf. recommends.

I hang for 30 seconds, lift and turn 180 degrees and hang for another 30 seconds.  I repeat this until the bait has hung for a full 3 minutes.  

The lift and turn, when the bait is out of the nail light, takes about 10 seconds.

So far, I haven't gotten any haze, even on a dark brown lure.

When I use a sharpie, I spray two coats of Createx gloss over it, heat set, and then dip, and the sharpie doesn't run.

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I do think film thickness can be a factor.  I dipped the lure in a 50 degree garage into 70 degree Solarez, let it drip for 5 minutes, then cured it.  The film was thick enough that the weight of the finish caused it to separate in a couple of areas on the bait, leaving what look like little valleys in the film surface.

 

I didn't have either the hazing or leveling problem earlier on a light color bait when I brushed the Solarez and used continuous UV curing.

 

I don't think mine is a "bad batch" of Solarez.

 

Oh well, back to the lab!

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I suspect that a few different things are going on.  I have tried to create the haze and I got it two ways. 

 

1) I touched up some spots with a red Spike-IT marker and did not let it dry for more then about 10 minutes.  The result was a serious Haze.  When I put the Solarez over some that had dried over night, the results was a haze free coat.

 

2) I dipped a bait and I only let it drip about two minutes instead of the 7 or more minutes.  This left a much thicker coat and that coat gave a serious Haze.  When I did another bait that I dipped at the same time, but left for probably 10 minutes, then the coat was much thinner and the haze was not there.

 

I wonder if the Haze people are getting is the result of either some form of contamination or from too thick of a wet coat.  UV is blocked in the first few fractions of an inch, especially UVa.  It is possible that the deeper coat is not curing completely.  Also, because the UV cures the surface so fast, I suspect that the wax, etc., is not able to migrate out if the coat is too thick.

 

How does this fit with those of you getting the Haze?\\

This brings an interesting point.  I wonder if the heat from the lights is causing moisture to rise out of the lure/paint?  Perhaps just hitting with a heat gun isn't enough.  

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