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Hard Bodied Frog?
26 replies to this topic
Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:36 PM
I tried making a top water hard bodied frog. It floats and looks good in my bath tub but I am curious if anybody has any insight or tips on what would work better. Mainly the hook placement!
Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:24 AM
The bait looks great. Really like the shape. Just looking at the picture it seems you might could have left a little more room between the body of the lure and the hook. Hard to really tell without holding it in your hand. Since most frogs you see these days have a double hook was there a reason you went with a single hook or was it just personal preference? Did you carve it or is it a molded body?
Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:05 AM
Ben, it's made out of balsa. I used a 5/0 jig hook that I had laying around. I know the soft type spro and scum frog lures use the two hook methods but I can't figure a way to implemement that. It looks great, but when I twitch it, the hook swings sideways and I see it snagging weeds.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:09 AM
Are you saying the hook should stick out further in the back? Behind the body?
Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:40 AM
I think he may have meant the gap between the point of the hook and the lure body should be wider, since its a hardbody and won't collapse when a fish grabs it.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:19 PM
Ned, I tried a similar design a few years back (except mine looked totally hack compared to yours). I ended up abandoning the idea at the time. I used double worm hooks. The balancing on these is tricky. You basically need it to perform like a weeble-wobble that only tilts a few degrees. I planned to come back to this design and my ideas were to create a slightly deeper, rounded belly and/or widen the base a bit. I also planned to hollow the top to make it stay more upright and Plaster of Paris to upright more abruptly when twitched. Like I said, I think this is a slightly tricky design. I do think your hook is too short thus not leaving enough gap for hookups. I'd recommend a double worm hook with a longer shaft. The double hook should help with the balance versus a single. They are more pricey than a single hook of course. I hope you get more replies on this. I am curious how the in-house experts will answer this one myself.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:48 PM
As the others have stated I was talking about the gap between the hook and the lure body. Seems to me a wider gap would result in better hook-ups since the body doesn't collapse as it would with a soft bodied bait. If your having trouble getting the bait to set upright in the water you might do as bsgorilla suggested and make the bottom wider. If you think that's going to make the bait too large you could possibly taper the rest of the body from the bottom up. I wish you much success with this one as it really looks good. Superb job of carving by the way.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:00 PM
You might be able to keep the weight lower and still get a good gap for the hook by hinging the hook like the Sebile crank, so it sits down onto the tail during the retrieve, but can swing up on the strike.
That would put the hook back farther, so the full gap would be available.
Edited by mark poulson, 05 March 2013 - 03:01 PM.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:20 PM
I have only tub tested it, but it sits nice and moves well on short pops of the line. But when I twitch it, it tips over slightly and the hook almost touches the water. I would like to fish it in mossy areas, but that may not work to well. Thanks for the replies everyone.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:26 PM
I've tried one similar to this and had an issue with it not turning over. Sometimes it would land belly up and not right itself. I added some weight to the belly and seems to have fixed the issue. But it does sit a lot lower in the water.
Mine by the way is not near as attractive. Great job carving.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:48 PM
I know everyone here on Hardbaits is into building HARD BAITS. That's a great looking frog and It's an interesting experiment. But thinking about it in practical terms, it's hard for me to imagine a hard frog that would perform as well or be as weedless over an emergent grass bed as the hollow rubber or soft plastic frogs. Unless you can engineer a hard frog with fixed hook to always land right side up, it will snag weeds on the first twitch. Maybe I'm not too bright and lack imagination, but I'm skeptical. Maybe instead of a fixed wide gap hook, a free swinging hook or treble with a weed guard?
Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:57 PM
My thinking is to cast it past the muck and twitch it through the fishy stuff. I think if I cast it into the muck it will get caught in the junk. Guess ill just have to try it and see
Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:44 AM
Stretcher thanks for the pic! Is that the double worm hook that has been recommended to try?
Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:15 PM
Stretcher, that is awesome. How are the frog hooks mounted to keep them from turning over? PS - I saw your paint job on this and I smashed my airbrush and set fire to all my paint. Thanks a lot.
Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:52 PM
Nedyarb: You can find double frog replacement hooks at Bass Pro Shops if you want the ones that are manufactured that way.
Another option is to take two hooks like the one you used and cut the eye off the front of one. Put the uncut hook in a fly tying vice, start some thread then tie the second hook in place using the fly tying thread. Make two passes down the hook shank and cover with thread. Tie off and hit the thread with some super glue. Once that sets up I use 5 min epoxy and cover the hook shank with a nice uniform amount of glue. When this sets up you wont be able to seperate them even using tools. I have made several frog style flies for bass this way and never had a problem. Works good and lasts a long time. Hope this helps.
Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:43 PM
My frog uses carved legs with a single no. 6 bait-hook attached and some marabou and pheasant breast to camouflage the hooks. It snags quite a bit but my next model will have hinged legs and I'll tie in a mono weed guard. It sits in the water with just it's head and nose out so I am pretty pleased with it.
Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:51 PM
Ned,Let me start by saying nice looking bait!...I've messed around with a few hard body frog designs on and off for a couple years.A couple things I've found is from the hook point to the shank has to be completely open.You'll need to move the hook back to achieve this.This creates another problem...your hook shank is only so long.So you may need to change hook styles ( straight eye) so you can anchor your hook mid body and use a eye screw etc. for a tie point...Or build one on a tube fly concept (Google tube fly if you don't know what I'm talking about) That way you can change hooks ... Also when you hook a fish the frog body slides away from the fish eliminating him being able to throw the bait. Also if you snag up... You can brake off the hook and save your bait.If you choose to go with the fixed hook version you can make it weed less a couple ways.You can attach a hitch hiker in the middle of the frogs back and either run a rubber band back to the hook or a thin piece of a plastic worm from the hitch hiker to the hook point ( something like a thin trout worm)
I personally do not have a problem with a single hooked frog. I found that my hook up ratio was just fine.I think everybody thinks you need a double hook because thats what all the big companies are doing.If you really think you need two hooks how about putting a eye screw on each side of the bait at the rear and mounting a hook on each side.Then hook a curly tail grub Texas style on each hook.
I have to disagree with BobP on the need for a hard bodied frog.I don't think they would ever replace the soft bodied versions however they definatley have their place.First of all they can be dead sticked as long as you want and not worry about them filling with water.Also when working them over heavy vegetation they have a heavy foot print which can increase you hook ups( they can be tracked easier and they set lower)plus you can cast them a country mile..there are definatley times I would fish a hard body over a soft body frog....I apologise for rambling... This is something I've spent a lot of time with...Nathan