CNC Molds N Stuff Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 that is the problem I always have, I get to the point where I need to either get bigger or quit, so I get bigger and should have quit I started my business with 50 bucks, price of a lead pot, lead and hooks Does this mean I have to quit using you as an example of a guy who started with a Fireball and now has a whole warehouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gangel Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 5 dollar business? Here's an example. 20 Quarter Ounce bare round head jigs. 2.50 at the most, say? If you look on ebay you might be able to get them for a buck, buck shipping. But we'll go with 2.50. One color vinyl paint. 2 bucks? 50 cents for a little el cheapo art paint brush. 5 bucks invested. Brush and paint should do a hundred (at least) jigs. Paint jigs. Sell on Craigslist or to buddies for 20 cents a piece. Pretty simple, I think. One could probably flip this for awhile. Yes it would be slow. And some of you might roll your eyes at this. But it is a business. And if the person was that small, they could actually get away with figuring out Excise tax the precise way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 If texasfisherman knows somebody that wants to buy clear baits with no flake in them then it looks like he is already in business and it didn't cost him nothing, well maybe a little electricity and his time but considering he will have no cost for the pot, plastisol, and molds I would say he is doing pretty good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetickhound Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 If texasfisherman knows somebody that wants to buy clear baits with no flake in them then it looks like he is already in business and it didn't cost him nothing, well maybe a little electricity and his time but considering he will have no cost for the pot, plastisol, and molds I would say he is doing pretty good. He's already ahead of me, that's for sure!! Seriously though.... This whole conversation has been enlightening to me. What I've gleaned out of it is that yes, you can START a business on a shoesting but if you want to CONTINUE being in business it will require investment and not just money. Luck will play a small role but I have always believed that you make your own luck. The harder (and smarter) I work, the luckier I seem to be.... Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.... I still haven't started actually selling baits (yes, I'm giving them away right now but not in the same quantities that I had been before, as it was apparent that folks here are right... Free baits will ALWAYS have takers.... Start talking money and the crowd thins out quickly....) but I want to be sure I learn how to crawl before I start trying to walk.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 5 dollar business? Here's an example. 20 Quarter Ounce bare round head jigs. 2.50 at the most, say? If you look on ebay you might be able to get them for a buck, buck shipping. But we'll go with 2.50. One color vinyl paint. 2 bucks? 50 cents for a little el cheapo art paint brush. 5 bucks invested. Brush and paint should do a hundred (at least) jigs. Paint jigs. Sell on Craigslist or to buddies for 20 cents a piece. Pretty simple, I think. One could probably flip this for awhile. Yes it would be slow. And some of you might roll your eyes at this. But it is a business. And if the person was that small, they could actually get away with figuring out Excise tax the precise way. The in-experienced make statements beyond hilarious. but somewhat entertaining 1 coat vinyl paint w/ a brush-LMAO!. At least you won't have to worry about depositing your earnings in a business account. FYI- excise tax is already figured out the precise way- 10 % due on gross sales every quarter via form #720 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gangel Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Sometimes I gotta walk away. I can tell I must be getting old, because I used to jump all over stuff like this. You wanted an example, you got an example. Until the day I die, I will stand by my convictions that a business can be started for 5 bucks. It might not be a "business" in your eyes, but it is. And, FYI, 10% on gross isn't precise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Sometimes I gotta walk away. I can tell I must be getting old, because I used to jump all over stuff like this. You wanted an example, you got an example. Until the day I die, I will stand by my convictions that a business can be started for 5 bucks. It might not be a "business" in your eyes, but it is. And, FYI, 10% on gross isn't precise. Go a head and jump on it - I can handle it. BTW- the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west. Go ahead and argue w/ the 10% excise tax not being precise. Successful entrepreneurs in a legal tackle manufacturing business pay it. Those who are not successful or-never owed a tackle manufacturing business continue to spew worthless rhetoric An entrepreneur is an individual who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on financial risk to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Go a head and jump on it - I can handle it. BTW- the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west. Go ahead and argue w/ the 10% excise tax not being precise. Successful entrepreneurs in a legal tackle manufacturing business pay it. Those who are not successful or-never owed a tackle manufacturing business continue to spew worthless rhetoric An entrepreneur is an individual who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on financial risk to do so. That statement alone is exactly why I said, I manufacture plastic baits for a living and have for over 5 years. Too bad that some people just don't get it, that in young people's spare time today, there's so many bad things for them to get into. I know this first hand because I have two teenage boys and work with teenagers at church. Kids absolutely need creative and worthwhile outlets for the time they're not in school. After all, it's usually these times that they wind up in trouble. Keep them on the water and off the streets fellows. I'd much rather see a child make a mistake in bait manufacturing or have good guidance in bait manufacturing, than some dope dealer doing the guidance or making a mistake with some kinds of drugs. Like I said there's just too many bad things out there for kids to get into these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Mike, I've started, owned and operated 3 succesful businesses in 37 years. I've had my neck and Ba*** out on the chopping block many times but always managed to come out ahead- raising two sons and going through a divorce. Hard work ,knowing your limitations and re-investing is paramount to ones' success. I read these comments of those who claim they can operate a succesful,small tackle business w/ a minimal investment for a full time business?? With all due respect, I'd like to see the schedule C part of their tax returns and the current amount of debt they owe. I've witness more then a few hot-air ballons come and go in the business world. They all talked a great tune, create a "flash and splash" scenerio but hurt some good folks financially w/ then went they went out of business and didn't pay their debts. I still believe the 15 years needs to be taught by someone experienced. Breathing plastisol fumes is very harmful and dangerous to ones' long term health. Kudo's to those willing to send materials and a pot to the young man but he needs someone to show him Safety 1st, production techniques 2nd. Most of us,including myself) started w/ hand pour molds and Lee pots.That said, one soon realizes injection w/CNC molds is the way to go( if they stay in the business long enough) There is plenty of used molds and pots for sale in the classifieds and on Bear's site from those who thought making baits was a profitable enterprise. Most would take a defensive stand against the large investment I have but like i stated before, I have no intentions of copying everyone else,purchasing a Zorn machine and moving up to the next level even though i have the capital and shop to do so. I had enough hedaches w/ various employees in the contracting business for 30 years and will not go that route now. Payroll taxes and benefits would kill you in a small tackle business operation- plain and simple. This is a good ,informative thread that will ceratinly open the eyes and close the wallets of some thinking this is their path to financial freedom. It's healthy to disagree as long as it remains civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 You've got to learn to crawl before you walk. Why haven't you posted these saftey aspects in detail for the young man? When and if I talk to his parents I certainly will, especially since this time last year I was going back and forth to the burn center. I think everybody realizes that injection is the way to go but I just wouldn't suggest it for anyone new pouring plastic, especially someone so young. There is a large difference between gravity pouring and pressure-rised 350 degree plastisol. Lee pots are great to learn with, you learn how plastic flows, you learn the importance of heat regulation, and God forbid if there was an accident, with lee pots its usually not that significant, after all I dont know anybody thats played around with pouring plastic that eventually dont get a little burned. And you are right, Bear's is a great website but all that information can be found on TU. Especially when people post constructive and positive information that is really meant to help more than it is to discourage, and not just post because they want to argue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetickhound Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I guess the ggod news is that at least a few of y'all are making decent enough money at this to keep doing it. I don't kid myself that plastic baits are going to be my ticket to "financial freedom" but if I can get to a point that i'm supplementing my current income then I would call it good. Maybe I'm not setting my sights high enough... It's ok for right now, I can always adjust up (or down) as the demand for my product decrees.... Like I said previously... Crawl.... Walk.... Run.... If I do make a real go of it I know I'll have a lot of you here at TU to thank for your advice and encouragement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 You've got to learn to crawl before you walk. Why haven't you posted these saftey aspects in detail for the young man? You keep picking and poking away. Kindly stop! You're dealing w/ an experiencedself-employed business man w/ 37 years experience. I do not sugar coat business advice since the business world is cruel and un-fair. I gave the tennager enough prudent advise concerning his future. I am not in favor of a 15 year old working w/ hot plastisol w/out direct supervision from experience people.I'm not about to waste my precious time detailing saftey items only to have some of the self-appointed experts on the board discredit them. Many on here work w/out an exhaust booth and/or adequate range hood w/ a 1400+cfm exhaust fan. There was just a discussion about the toxidity of molten lead fumes. Most,if any never used a digital pyrometer w/ an imersion probe to check lead temperatures. Attention to detail is paramount to success and ones' personal safety. i wish i had purchased better equipment from the beginning. Some on TU have ridiculed my statement of 2-4 k to get started in the injection business w/ a shooting star -2 color system and muliple CNC injection molds- or even a hobby for that matter. Respect the detailed advice i'm willing to give and plan your financial willingness and capabilities before you dive in and then have a forced fire sale. I'd be really careful sending a teenager equipment that can possibly harm and injure him in today's,litigious society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) I'd be really careful sending a teenager equipment that can possibly harm and injure him in today's,litigious society. Can I get an Amen! Edited August 23, 2013 by Gon2long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gangel Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 2 things... A business is a business. From part time to full time... a business is a business. If it makes money or not, it's a business. Not necessarily on paper business, but if it's presented as a business, it's an attempt. Taxes are neither here nor there. America was founded on people doing things in their basements, back yards, garages. We need MORE of that. What we don't need, (in my opinion) is people taking out millions in loans to "start a business". Let a business build, don't build the business. (p.s. I think this is what Obama was getting at with the "we did it" speech. We, as Americans, built our businesses. Nobody else. But no Politics) 2nd thought. Just because people have done things a certain way and it's "worked for them" for millions of years, does not always make it right and correct. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? I, for one, like where this thread went. I have found out a lot about things and people. I am going to reserve my thoughts on certain items that were brought up. I'm planning on using that later to my advantage. Some day I might even go into my plan on "starting my business". I am actually trying to start a business that doesn't "make money". Stupid sounding, yes. But it isn't always about money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 Many on here work w/out an exhaust booth and/or adequate range hood w/ a 1400+cfm exhaust fan. I would like to know why a 1400+ cfm fan is needed for everyone? the last hvac specialist i spoke to (who designed my exhaust system) used a formula to calculate the proper fan size based on the room i am working in, the size of the hood, the size of the exhaust pipes, and the size of the fresh air intake, and i will tell you i am only running a 500 cfm exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 Go a head and jump on it - I can handle it. BTW- the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west. You keep picking and poking away. Kindly stop! No one is picking or poking, by the top quote again it shows that you are just posting to argue with whomever you feel like you've got the upper hand on. I think everybody on here gets it, you're "not in favor of a 15 year old working with hot plastisol" but yet you posted that you would bring him into your shop for some on the job training, then you say he needs someone to show him saftey first then you also said "its a waste of your precious time detailing saftey items". Its one thing then another. You know in most states a kid gets his learner's permit at 15 then his driver's liscence at 16 years old so he is old enough to operate a car or a truck and of course he learns to drive with supervision but you are the only one who has said that he will be pouring plastic without supervision, you arn't giving his parents much credit are you? Just because you have been in business for 37 years does not make you a self appointed expert neither. I have been running a sucessful soft plastic bait business for 18 years and started out with one Lee pot, now there is 500,000 dollars worth of equippment in the shop and it dosen't make me an expert but it does make me specifically expirienced in the plastic industry. Like I said I won't do anything before talking to his parents and explaining in great detail the importance of saftey and supervision when pouring plastisol and I'm way ahead of everyone when it comes to liability. Me and Baitjunky both have already agreed that we need a signed statement noting that the parents understand the saftey aspects of pouring plastisol and that we won't be held liable for any accidents and we won't send anything without this letter, after all I am a business person too. So what other reasons are going to be repeated over and over to discourage a teenager who loves to fish and would like to make a few of his own baits and then if he has a love for it to maybe sell a few, as long as he follows the laws and rules and his parents agree to it, where does anyone have a right to discourage him? I really think its great that he came to TU for advice, like its been said, his parents could've just bought the equippment and handed it to him, at least me and baitjunky will get a chance to let his parents know exactly what they're getting into. And by the way Baitjunky is also going to furnish some coloring and flake, which is a fine example of an incouraging person and a stand up guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 No one is picking or poking, by the top quote again it shows that you are just posting to argue with whomever you feel like you've got the upper hand on. I think everybody on here gets it, you're "not in favor of a 15 year old working with hot plastisol" but yet you posted that you would bring him into your shop for some on the job training, then you say he needs someone to show him saftey first then you also said "its a waste of your precious time detailing saftey items". Its one thing then another. You know in most states a kid gets his learner's permit at 15 then his driver's liscence at 16 years old so he is old enough to operate a car or a truck and of course he learns to drive with supervision but you are the only one who has said that he will be pouring plastic without supervision, you arn't giving his parents much credit are you? Just because you have been in business for 37 years does not make you a self appointed expert neither. I have been running a sucessful soft plastic bait business for 18 years and started out with one Lee pot, now there is 500,000 dollars worth of equippment in the shop and it dosen't make me an expert but it does make me specifically expirienced in the plastic industry. Like I said I won't do anything before talking to his parents and explaining in great detail the importance of saftey and supervision when pouring plastisol and I'm way ahead of everyone when it comes to liability. Me and Baitjunky both have already agreed that we need a signed statement noting that the parents understand the saftey aspects of pouring plastisol and that we won't be held liable for any accidents and we won't send anything without this letter, after all I am a business person too. So what other reasons are going to be repeated over and over to discourage a teenager who loves to fish and would like to make a few of his own baits and then if he has a love for it to maybe sell a few, as long as he follows the laws and rules and his parents agree to it, where does anyone have a right to discourage him? I really think its great that he came to TU for advice, like its been said, his parents could've just bought the equippment and handed it to him, at least me and baitjunky will get a chance to let his parents know exactly what they're getting into. And by the way Baitjunky is also going to furnish some coloring and flake, which is a fine example of an incouraging person and a stand up guy. You continue to assume and criticise. I've correct ed some of your assumtions concerning me in the past yet you never state "I stand corrected." It takes a real person to admit when they are incorrect.You're the man- the B.M.O.C.(in your own eyes) Statements from Gangel are worthless rhetoric concerning a business and successful business philosophies.He threatened so i took him up on it. You use this as ammunition against me? I'm not going to continue w/ any further,personal attacks. It simply serves no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 I would like to know why a 1400+ cfm fan is needed for everyone? the last hvac specialist i spoke to (who designed my exhaust system) used a formula to calculate the proper fan size based on the room i am working in, the size of the hood, the size of the exhaust pipes, and the size of the fresh air intake, and i will tell you i am only running a 500 cfm exhaust. There are many variables to an exhaust hood and or booth..I went through the same calculations w/ an HVAC specialist and yes,mine is adequate but i wish I had more CFM's when the application calls for it.. I prefer not to work w/ a mask and @times ,still get some aromatic vapors from various products used on the edge of the booth. A large,open range hood would need more CFM depending upon the distance from the work area and the size.. I would prefer an exhaust system w/ a variable rheostat ( if that is compatable w/ the fan I choose) for my next exhaust system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 I think everyone should take a breather and keep cool. All the information is great from all sides. I had a small part time printing buesiness for 30 years, yes 30 now looking back I should have made the big move or get out, I chose to stay, I had a good job with benifits. Now I want to start up a small musky lure business crazy but when you hit 70 you can do crazy things, my grandson wants to get into this, but his collage comes first, he has the passion for fishing. Just my 2 cents. Wayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 I think everyone should take a breather and keep cool. All the information is great from all sides. Wayne I agree-time to relax. Peace to all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteZipczech Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 I agree-time to relax. Peace to all ! Thank God !! This thread was about to make me PUKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 "Statements from Gangel are worthless rhetoric concerning a business and successful business philosophies.He threatened so i took him up on it. You use this as ammunition against me" No one's opionion is worthless and you are the one that keeps posting these things and furnishing the ammunition. I agree, you need to relax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Way to keep it going Mike I'm loosing faith in your continuance of this thread. But it takes moderation to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
