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Griffond

Glide Bait Talk

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There is a somewhat delicate balance to a glide bait that actually produces fish with regularity.

I have made a few that have caught several dozen fish and I made even more that would "run" but caught only a few or none at all.

But what actually is the right and sure fire action of a well catching glidebait , .........I guess , that only the fish could tell :blink: ?

 

greetz , Dieter :yay:

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Here is one that I had made last winter , fished it thoroughly for the first time this morning and afternoon , .....looks like a good design , ......apart from the two fish(well , at least one could be called a fish  :lol: )shown , another average pike had a go on the lure , .....but surely was reluctant , just bumped the bait with the nose , could clearly see at 2 feet of depth , also felt it .

 

The sideward glide of this bait looks pretty fine to me , ....though sadly I was unable to capture it's full potential on video , I guess , ...also utilizing a better suited , more stiffish rod might still improve it's action .

 

 

Greetz , Dieter :yay:

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Looks great Dieter!! Thanks for sharing,

I was comparing the action of your glider to the rapala twitch. Your bait makes a a full ninety on one twitch and the rapala seems to take two then changes direction on the third.

What advantage would you say those fins provide?

Edited by littleriver
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So I will ask the technical questions here vs youtube... I only have one random thought on that design and if I have a lathe I would try it... so if you lathed down a torpedo all the way vs stopping for the fin section and then cut in two biscuit slots and put in two biscuits instead do you think that would work?  

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I've never made a glide bait, but I have made numerous topwater baits, and I find that glide length is a function of lure length.

The longer the lure, the longer the glide.  Short top waters walk the dog almost in place, and the longer the bait, the longer the walking action, and the slower the bait needs to be worked.

I would guess that would apply to glide baits, too, since their desired action is very similar.

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Yeah Mark I would have to agree somewhat about length and action length I just finally got the weight glued into mine last night going to sand it down lightly to scuff up the D2T I sealed it with after I check it again in the monster bucket I've been using to test it out in for sink and glide its the only thing I got so we work with what we got... I think its gonna be allot of fun to paint and swim. 

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I sealed mine before tinkering with it... it makes it allot easier Dieter recommended doing so before I started to figure out the weighting of it. I just used a thin coat of D2T over it then started in the kitchen sink with weighting and moved to a giant rope handled bucket outside to make sure I got it right before glueing it in. If you have a bathtub it would make life easier. 

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@ littleriver

 

Vic , ...such rear fins do add sideward stability and guidance to a glidebait in the water , in particular to such round-bodied ones .

 

Naturally a round-bodied bait has a tendency to roll , so a certain share of the energy of the single rod jerk is causing the lure to roll , not generating the desired forward push , which finally results into the sideward glide .

 

The fins do counterwork a rolling motion , so more of the jerk's momentum is changed into the desired forward glide .

 

Dunno , whether as a boy you had built simple bow and arrows , ...I did , .....and I remember when shooting simple plain hazelnut rods  as arrows , these would get to tumble on flight and also fly somewhat unpredictably , ........adding a feather fletching to them really improved their accuracy and general performance on flight , also let them fly further , .........so , ..in a nutshell , .......these rear fins on my glidebait cause a similar result to the lure .

 

If you would do an about same shaped and balanced lure WITHOUT fins , it would certainly not glide as pronounced and not dart as far , also it's gliding directions would become more random .

 

Regarding those flat and high profiled drop belly gliders , .......these would not require any fins , ...better said , they would be rather useless , as such lure's body height and the lower belly ballast do already let the lure sit upright and quite stable , counterworking a greater tendency to roll(roll resulting into a waste of forward momentum) .

 

@ Griffond

 

Off course this would work , ......at least it would be easier to work down , ....but one's gotta make compromises in terms of stability(if the lureblank gets very thin at that portion) , ........and you'd still need some "flesh" for holding the screweyes and also for ballast holes .

 

I've made the fins in this elaborate way , also to gain a bit more of buoyancy in the rear part of the lure , so that I can place a bit more of ballast there , as more rear ballast imparts more momentum ,.......by placing a polycarbonate or metal fin there ,  I would even have lost buoancy .

 

@ mark poulson

 

Mark , off course you are dead on , ....the longer the lurebody , the more guidance in the water , thus a longer glide compared to a shorter lure !

 

@ Gon2long

 

It is of advantage to seal ANY timber lure prior to exposing it to water , even if it would only be for a little while .

 

In every case the woodgrains would rise up more or less and you'd have to sand it all over again , ....eventually assembled lips or hookhangers just do not make this  task easier .

 

Even more important is , that if the water exposure might get to take a little longer , the wood soaks up water and your results about determining ballast  location and amount would become increasingly inaccurate , ....also you would have to spend a longer period of time to dry the blank thoroughly , before finally glueing in the ballast and proceed with painting .

 

When trimming  a glidebait or a topwater "walk-the-dog" bait , you should pre-assemble all hardware and hooks , also attach the neccessary wire leader(or at least a piece of wire as a substitute) , just to get as accurate as possible with sink rate and/or swim level , ........but remember , that the finished lure would always get to sink a tad faster than determined , just because you'd drill out some buoyant material for the ballast holes and also paint and topcoat do add a little weight  .

 

Thanks a lot for your interest , folks , .......greetz , Dieter :yay:

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Excellent thanks guys I kinda figured it was to my advantage to seal it first I have a big swimming pool for the test tank so I'm covered there I also pour lead with a bottom feed furnace so I can make lead ballast pretty accurate. I saw some are using PVC for making their blank it machines like wood but I was a little concerned about the screw eyes holding fast I would guess epoxy is key here, anyone liking the PVC? I've been in somewhat of a mad rush I'm having surgery on the 1st of October and would like my shop set up before then just got finished hooking up my router table and works like a charm, thanks for the input this thread is a good one!

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The AZEK PVC I use holds screw eyes just fine.  I predrill a screw shank sized pilot hole, so the threads have something to grab, run the screw eyes in to cut the threads in the PVC, back them out again and coat them with brush-on crazy glue, and run them back in.  Whatever glue that collects at the surface when I run them in acts as a key to keep them from unscrewing.  I've never had an eye unscrew on a fish.

I use twist wire for my crank line ties, set in epoxy or coated with brush-on crazy glue before they're inserted.

I use small figure 8 hook hangers ( the kind that are used in plastic cranks), set in a tight fitting hole with crazy glue, for my small cranks, and I've never had one fail.  

Both the PVC and the glue are harder/stronger than the 12lb line I typically use for them.  Whenever I've tried to remove a hanger that's crooked, I've wound up twisting the wire off instead of being able to remove the hanger and glue.

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This is about an hours worth of time how am I doing so far? This was a template from the net, did not expect it to go so smoothly I made templates from paper then transferred them to thin veneer wood for longevity traced them on the block trimmed on scroll saw and did the rough sanding as you see it on a stationary belt/disc sander, I think I'm getting there now when it comes to ballast I'm a bit lost so I'll be heading to the search function to see what I can dig up.

 

Glide bait

Edited by Gon2long
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Guys, Last night I went back and re-read a bunch of stuff about gliders in the archives. There were threads about gliders going all the way back to 2004. Lots of good information from some pretty knowledgeable folks. Everything from size, thickness, shape, ballast, ballast location, etc. Might be worth a trip down "memory lane" to those of you wanting to learn more about gliders.

 

Ben

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I am thinking we might want to start a sticky thread called the Glidebait/Jerkbait cook book since it appears there are allot of people that make them on here and we are each kind of trying tried and true designs with different woods and ballast ideas... could almost post some PDFs or docs of the templates for folks with different ballast ideas. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

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Does anyone have a good Suick Template that has dimensions on it... I just got some nice 1x2" pine boards that I think would work great for these I would just like some dimensions vs guessing at sizes of things... I was going for the 17cm and 23 cm versions 

No other than this one , .....but with a bit of measuring on an enlarged printout and a bit of proportional calculation to get to the desired length or width you should get along quite well .

 

http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html

 

Check "Jerkbaits" , then "Divers" and finally go to " 10 Inch Megadiver"

 

 

 

.......BTW , ......the "Musky Jerk Bait Pattern 2"  published in this PDF file is similar to the action of a "Suick" , but is yet easier to build , as it does not require a tailfin to dive down .

 

http://www.luremaking.com/catalogue/download/crankbaitcarvingpatterns.pdf

 

I have never tried the low tow eye position as indicated , ...I'm placing the line tie right in center of the slant diving plane and add a bit of hammered flat belly weight about 1/3 to 2/5 of length from the nose's edge , ......just to decrease buoyancy , thus increase hangtime and to have the lure dart deeper and steeper downward .

 

The bait should hang just SLIGHTLY head down at rest , ...not more than 5° , I'd say  , .......but if hanging dead on level won't be a big deal , either , ...maybe just a few inches less of depth :??

 

Even my smaller 5"  versions can be jerked down to about 3 feet  , ...but all depends on remaining buoyancy , ......bigger lures would naturally dig deeper , .......5 or 6 feet would be the limit , I reckon .

 

Even added a prop or a tail spinner to some  , ......caught a couple of average pike on these lures before .

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2675-very-simple-pullbaits-but-yet-effective/

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2674-very-simple-pullbaits-but-yet-effective/

 

Greetz , Dieter :yay:

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I finished painting and coating it today gonna take it for a swim tomorrow will try and get a video I also cut out two more to mess with and will be working on some lures dieter mentioned again... you make my life easier with the web pages dieter lol. Here is the pic not the best paint job of the Smiling Jerk lol

 

gallery_29525_8_410056.jpg

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There is a lot of good information in the archives but you have to know where to look, the cookbook sounds like a great idea. I too would like to see some video's demonstrating the action of a properly made glidebait. Personally being a neophyte to lure making, its hard to figure out where to start looking and learning.

 

Try putting this into the search function. Without the quotation marks. You'll come up with a bunch of pages that have some really good information about glide baits.

 

"glide baits gliders"

 

Ben

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I saw that the first glider on one of Dieter's links has ballast in the head and tail, but none in the middle, so, once it turns one way, there is enough momentum to get it to swing the other way on the jerk/pull.  A center ballast weight might give it a center of gravity to pivot around, but the 6" Cobbs Glider doesn't have it.
 

http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html

Edited by mark poulson
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Mark,

 

You still have a center of gravity no matter where the ballast is placed. That COG can be manipulated by where the ballast is placed. That point may very well not even be close to the dimensional center. As I understand it the COG is the point at which the lure can be balanced so that it sits level. By placing more weight into the front part of a lure the COG will be closer to the front of the lure. Same thing in reverse. More weight in the back the closer to the rear the COG will be.

 

Something else I remember is Dave talking about his weighted stick explanation on how ballast location affects how easy, or hard, it is to get the stick moving and keep it moving in rhythm. If you place two weights close to the center of the stick it is fairly easy to get the stick moving in a back and forth motion and also to maintain a steady rhythm. The farther apart you move the weights the more force it takes to get it started moving as well as more force to keep it moving back and forth due to the greater affects of inertia the weights have now gained as a result of being spread apart. 

 

And I could be wrong. I'm certainly no engineer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :lol:

 

Ben

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Griffond I've also become interested in throwing gliders for bass...out here on the west coast on  the California Delta...last spring I made my first glider following steps on Lurebuild (site recommended by Diemai).

I followed instructions for the "Jacko" glider in the Hybrid section....must say it works great. Drops horizontally..with great "walk the dog" action...here's the link to my first glider in the gallery...in addition i recently added my second glider in the gallery. http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/11664-delta-gill-glider/

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Ben, 

You're right, of course.  I was trying to say that by moving the ballast more or less equally away from the center of gravity, you'd give the front and rear more inertia on the pause, so that, once the lure starts to turn, it would continue more easily.

I notice that the gliders on Dieter's Lurebuild site all seem to have their ballast split like that, to some degree.

What you say makes sense, that moving it too far toward the ends would make working the bait harder.

I guess you'd have to play around to find the spacing that works best for your lure shape and size, just like with any other bait we make.

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