A-Mac Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I'm not sure if this exists, but I'm trying to find a product similar to createx gloss top coat only thicker. I really like using it as a sealer over pvc and resin lures to smooth the surface before painting as well as a topcoat before dipping in concrete sealer. I was just wondering if there was one out there that has an even heavier topcoat, preferably a water base. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Don't know about a thick water base A-Mac, but you might try the old method of dipping them in a white lacquer. I know Poe's used this method to both seal and level out any imperfections in their baits. Seems like a lot of bait companies used this method years ago. I think they just dipped them and hung them up to dry. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Thanks Ben. I'll have to keep that in mind too. I also would like the thick clear to shoot over foil before painting to help smooth out some of the foil seems and wrinkles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarftd Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Propionate would work...could mix it as this as thin or thick as you want. If you are just using as a base coat thick would work if you were using as a top coat too thick would destroy your paint Edited February 11, 2014 by Cougarftd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Yeah. I forgot about that stuff. I still have a bag from my when I made balsa lures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Oh yeah, I remember why I don't use propionate! I've never been able to get the solution to cure clear, which sucks for foil coating, though it's perfect for sealing a balsa lure. Even using lacquer thinner it would still come out cloudy and dull. However, I've never been able to find the "virgin" lacquer thinner that I'm supposed to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've never used propionate before, but seems like I remember reading something about humidity screwing with the clarity. Don't count this as the gospel because I'm working off of memory here and that seems to be something that's a little on short supply as I get older. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Seal-Coat by CS Coatings could be a good option. It's a water based epoxy that doesn't require mixing and cleans up easily. For your foiled baits, where this coating will show, it's available with UV added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarftd Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 With propionate if it cures chalky it is usually due to humidity but if you take a clean cloth with acetone and buff it you will have a clear finish...has worked every time for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Does mixing propionate with acetone instead of lacquer thinner help with the chalky problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks guys. Yeah, I've heard humidity is the root of the problem, but I've had the same responses even when humidity was 15%. Heck, I figured this stuff should be a piece-o-cake to use in drought stricken Texas. @ Cougarftd, Thanks for the tip. have you dipped GST over propionate yet? Any adverse reactions? @Hawgfan, this seal-coat stuff sounds like something I should have in the arsenal of airbrush stuff anyway. Since I recently found out Barlows is only an hour away, I may have to make another trip! Same question goes for this stuff though, have you noticed any adverse reactions to GST or other concrete sealers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Does mixing propionate with acetone instead of lacquer thinner help with the chalky problem? I get a slightly less cloudy finish with the thinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Just a hope, not a suggestion. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 The slower drying thinner/reducer will slow the evaporation of the solvent, rapid evaporation is what cause condensation to form on the surface or trapped in the finish. Retarder or a high temperature thinner/reducer or solvent will stop the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 A-Mac, I haven't used any concrete sealers yet, so I can't say. Seal-Coat is designed for dipping jig heads. A friend turned me on to it, but I have basically no experience with it yet. I glued a twisted wire in a piece of balsa with it, and it seems strong. I didn't test to failure, but I pulled hard enough to slip the drag on any of my reels, and it held. It is about the viscosity of thin syrup. From what I saw on the surface of my raw piece of balsa, It appeared to penetrate the wood a bit. It could also prove to be a good balsa sealer. I don't know how the durability would be as far as a crankbait finish coat. The low viscosity would lead to lots of dripping/running, I assume. Anything coated in this stuff will probably work best on a wheel. In time, I'm sure I'll find some good uses for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 The slower drying thinner/reducer will slow the evaporation of the solvent, rapid evaporation is what cause condensation to form on the surface or trapped in the finish. Retarder or a high temperature thinner/reducer or solvent will stop the problem. Thanks! I'll have to pic some up next time I'm at the paint shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 @A-Mac Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarftd Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I have not used GST over propionate but I don't think it would be an issue...I have on;y used acetone, never thinner. The straight acetone On a cloth will take away the cloudy finish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ok, I did a test with the propionate on a separate lure. It fogged up, I dipped it in pure acetone until it went clear. From then on, it stayed clear. I went to do the same on the lure I'm working on, only I had holographic tape over a portion of the foil. Well, it ate it. The bad thing is, i did a propionate dip on a strip of the tape first with no issues! Eh well. After stripping the foil and starting over (yuck), I did a few createx clear sprays on the lure and did a few heavy coats brushed on the top and bottom. It didn't take much effort with a kerosene heater drying it in between coats. It's pretty smooth. I think by the time I get done painting the top and bottom and doing 4 coats of E-supreme it will look fine. I'm thinking the Seal-Coat may be worth trying for future use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Is there any particular reason your not using epoxy to cover your foil and even out the edges A-Mac? Is it a cost or time/labor issue? Epoxy will definitely protect the foil from anything applied after the epoxy coating. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I just hate epoxies. A bug or something stupid always finds its way into the finish while its turning.... or a clip slips. This lure weighs 3oz, so im more worried about the clip slipping part and coming back to find it permanently glue to my desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I knew you had to have a reason and was just wondering. Good luck finding something that will do what your looking for. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Bugs in Texas???? Nah, never happen. Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogAddict Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) A-mac, If you find a good product that can both seal/smooth out imperfections and topcoat before dipping in GST I may dance a jig. Edited February 13, 2014 by FrogAddict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhersh Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Don't know about a thick water base A-Mac, but you might try the old method of dipping them in a white lacquer. I know Poe's used this method to both seal and level out any imperfections in their baits. Seems like a lot of bait companies used this method years ago. I think they just dipped them and hung them up to dry. Ben Hey Ben! What is white lacquer and where do you get it. I have never heard of this. Thanks Royce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
