Lead Question

[aaarneson]

I had an issue with one of my molds.  Sent it in to Do-it.  They sent
me a new one with a letter that said use soft lead only, with some
other notes and tips.  In that package as well were some jigs they made
with soft lead...noticed it was really easy to bend off the extra
pour(forgot what this is called) and as well hammer it out with minimal
effort.

 

I use cleaned wheel weight ingots to make
my jigs.  But I was wondering if Pure Soft Lead is REALLY needed.  Or if
maybe a half and half mixture would be good.

 

What do you guys use?  Any tips?  Experiences you want to share?

 

Thanks

[Apdriver]

There are a lot of variables that can affect your pours but percent of pure lead is certainly one of them. I try to keep my pours at 50/50 pure lead to wheel weight lead and have good success with it. Luckily, I have a good supply of the pure from old lead sheeting from an deconstructed X-ray booth. If I start getting incomplete pours, I'll throw in a chunk of the pure and flux. If your not fluxing, that can help too. I use parrifin wax. Cheap and available at the grocery.

[dlaery]

"A picture is worth a thousand words"

A pic if possible, of your problem someone might say, "Ah ha This is what you do."

So you said you had a problem, don't keep us in suspense. The better you describe your problem, the better the answer you will get.

[aaarneson]

Sorry...I am not really having any issues as of now.  More of a curiousity.  The letter I got back seemed to imply that the reason the mold was not working properly was because I wasn't using soft lead.

[dlaery]

No, I'm sorry. I didn't read and understand your question the first time, my mistake.

I have used a lot of wheel weights and as a general rule don't like them, but I wouldn't be afraid to use them if that was the only lead I had I think half and half would be great. maybe small jigs with a barb might be harder to fill out completely using wheel weights. Wheel weights are harder because of antimony added to lead. but there is other "stuff" in wheel weights that make them not pour as well, I don't think it is because it is hard.I always thought WW had about 1% antimony, but I don't know. Harder lead might be better for spinner/buzz baits because the hooks and wire can loosen in the pure soft lead and the harder lead doesn't. On the harder lead, the spru's will be harder to break off, but not bad.

lead melts somewhere around 680F but pours better somewhere around 780 to 850F. Fluxing with candle wax or a suitable fluxing powder is recommended a lot here

BE very careful and don't get too much wax, it will flame up a lot. there is lots of info on TU about fluxing and general info on lead and should be able to find easy with the search. I almost never flux my hand pouring lead pot. When I have pouring problems I try ":drop out" spray or change the way/angle that I hold the mold to pour the lead in. I only put clean lead in my pot. I have melted my scrap in a different pot, skimmed off the dross and poured into ingots.Most of the time I flux the scrap lead. When I skim junk off the lead it is in the form of loose dirt. that is what the flux will do is separate the dirt from the lead.

[Jig Man]

A good thing for molds is a release agent Cadman put me on to Frankfort Arsenal drop out.  It corrected the mold issues for me in some of my Poison Tail cavities,

[cadman]

As mentioned, there are many variables here. I think (don't quote me) but almost every mold Do-It sells, has "use soft lead". So although this does help on some hard to pour molds, this is not the only solution. I am a firm believer in first and foremost, is to clean your mold and spray drop out. This has solved many problems for me in the years past. Secondly, everything has to be hot and I mean really hot. Lastly, when these variables are met, I feel the final problem, many guys have is trapped air. If you are pouring too fast this will happen. However to solve this problem you will have to put in the time to see what each mold does. None of this is magic, but every mold that I have, has its quirks on each day. Now if you use the hooks stated, you can get air pockets, if you are using hooks thinner then stated, the problem usually corrects itself. With this said, I disagree with just pouring pure lead. Now this is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I usually pour 70-75% hard and 30-25% soft. I like this ratio, however this is not for everyone. I like all my jigs on the harder side. I only have one mold that will not pour my lead mix, and that is the Ultra Minnow spinnerbait. I think it is a mold issue, but since the soft lead works, I move on. The key to a lot of this is to write down what each of your mold quirks are. For example mold xxx, tilt forward at 20 degrees and stick sprue hole of mold onto pot spout in 1/8 oz cavity. This may seem like a lot of work, but it is your starting point for the next time you pour, as you know it worked well like this last time. This will keep you from constantly doing trial and error. In the end it's all about trying everything when you pour. There are days, when nothing goes right for me, and I shut it down and start fresh the next day. It usually solves my dilemma. Happy Pouring.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Lead molds being mostly gravity poured (except for spincasting of course) are going to be tricky.  Sometimes heating the mold so hot it will burn you will allow a mold to fill properly with different alloys, but its also much more dangerous to handle.  Nobody including myself is going to recommend you do that.  

 

Ages ago I used to cast my own round balls for muzzle loading.  I found if I dipped the corner of the mold in the molten lead until the lead poured cleanly off the mold when I lifted it out, then immediately poured the mold I got perfect bullets almost every time.  Obviously you need a pot holder or an oven mitt to do that with one piece aluminum handle molds.  My bullet molds had steel rod and wood handles so the part I grabbed did not heat up to the point where it would burn me.  

 

I've used that method for a number of molds that have given me problems since.  I've also found really large molds will dissipate heat from the exposed surface too quickly to ever get hot enough through out to use this method effectively.  I found I could heat them over a general flame and pour them, but it would make the mold unhandleable and would char or burn wood handles.  Instead I prefer to make lead molds smaller whenever possible.  

 

Your mileage may vary.  

[smalljaw]

I do things very similar to Cadman and I agree with his way of doing things as we have talked about things for a long time now. I get my lead from Rotometals, I get pure soft lead as well as lead with 3% to 5% antimony in them, I break down the pure lead into 1lb ingots and I break down the antimony and lead into 1/2lb ingots, this lets me custom make alloys for spinnerbaits and jigs. I never use wheel weight lead anymore due to the fact some newer ones have a high zinc content and it can ruin 10 lbs of lead, it has happened to me already. I pour my jigs a little harder so they don't dent when hitting rock, but I don't make them as hard as Cadman, I go with a 40% pure to 60% hard and for spinnerbaits it is 70% pure and 30% hard, this makes it hard enough that it doesn't get loose where the wire enters the head, but soft enough that I get complete pours. You were told to make sure your molds are hot and after that you can "crack" a mold meaning you take a piece high temp Teflon tape and use it like a shim by placing it somewhere along the mold so it closes with just a tiny gap that isn't enough to cause flash but just enough to let air escape. Another thing I do is using a ladle, my brush jig mold is tough to get complete pours out of any of the cavities using the bottom pour, even when extremely hot with the mold cracked it is incredibly hard to do, but if I use a lade I can pour 50 straight with no incomplete pours. So you don't need pure soft lead but adding some to just plain wheel weights will help plus you need to make sure you don't have any high zinc weights or you will ruin the lead and quite possibly your melt pot too.

[aaarneson]

Thanks everyone for the responses.  I am not having any currently issues pouring....at least none that I have not been able to get past.

 

Cadman

How do you clean your molds?  Also where do I get that spray?

 

Thanks

[cadman]

Clean your molds with mineral spirits or paint thinner.  I will PM you with where to buy it and the best prices and shipping.

[smallmouthaholic]

I will never use wheel weights-period.Loaded w/ dirt ,zinc and associated pouring problems. I ladle pour the Do-it Ultra spinner bait mold w/ hard lead and do the following-

 

1- Keep your mold ,slightly opened on the top of your lead pot when not in use.

2- Pour the cavities 3 times w/out wire forms and hooks for the initial interior,mold heat-up

3-Keep the ladle submerged in the lead pot when not in use

4- I use woodworking vices mounted on the edge of my exhaust booth to hold the mold firmly in place and don't have to worry about overpours spilling onto a gloved hand.

5- Flux lead often to remove impurities

6-I use drop-out in the sprue canal but smoke the interior of the mold cavities w/ a candle flame.

7- The harder lead needs to reach a temperature of 900 + degrees to pour these .Use adequate exhaust to remove all vapors @ these temperatures.

 

Personally, I will never see the need for hard lead in any jigs I pour- especially all of my custom double barbed models down to 1/16 oz. That said, harder lead w/ antimony is a must(I.M.O. and experience) for buzzbaits and spinner baits.

 

I stated this before- monitor your lead temperature inside your pot w/ a digital pyrometer and note which molds pour best @ a specific temperature.You'll also know when the thermostat in your Lee pot needs replacement and those thermostats do go bad.

 

Edited for additional content

Edited June 14, 2014 by smallmouthaholic

[smalljaw]

I will never use wheel weights-period.Loaded w/ dirt ,zinc and associated pouring problems. I ladle pour the Do-it Ultra spinner bait mold w/ hard lead and do the following-

 

1- Keep your mold ,slightly opened on the top of your lead pot when not in use.

2- Pour the cavities 3 times w/out wire forms and hooks for the initial interior,mold heat-up

3-Keep the ladle submerged in the lead pot when not in use

4- I use woodworking vices mounted on the edge of my exhaust booth to hold the mold firmly in place and don't have to worry about overpours spilling onto a gloved hand.

5- Flux lead often to remove impurities

6-I use drop-out in the sprue canal but smoke the interior of the mold cavities w/ a candle flame.

7- The harder lead needs to reach a temperature of 900 + degrees to pour these .Use adequate exhaust to remove all vapors @ these temperatures.

 

Personally, I will never see the need for hard lead in any jigs I pour- especially all of my custom double barbed models down to 1/16 oz. That said, harder lead w/ antimony is a must(I.M.O. and experience) for buzzbaits and spinner baits.

 

I stated this before- monitor your lead temperature inside your pot w/ a digital pyrometer and note which molds pour best @ a specific temperature.You'll also know when the thermostat in your Lee pot needs replacement and those thermostats do go bad.

 

Edited for additional content

 

I have a question, I use lead with antimony for spinnerbaits but only 30% because I know 100% soft lead can lead to the wire becoming loose, but why not hard lead for jigs? I assume you throw them in rocks and while I don't worry about small 1/16oz and 3/32oz hair jigs denting, larger jig in the 3/8oz variety will dent if they hit hard enough which is I why I use 70% lead with antimony in it for all of the larger jigs I pour which is 1/4oz to 1oz.

[smallmouthaholic]

I don't bounce my jigs off of rocks above the water line.   Seriously,I've never had a problem w/ denting in 25 years nor have I recieved any complaints from customers.Various types of jigs are designed to perform specific functions fished through submerged timber,weeds,ledges and various substrate.Consistent hook sets and reduced snag performance while holding various soft-plastic trailers firmly in place are the jig qualities necesssary I.M.O.

[Fatman]

some molds will work better with pure - but I've used tire weight for years down to 1/32nd.  You get weights with Z, ZA and lately I've seen some with ZF on them toss them.  When I do any jig with crane swivels I try to use a 2-1 mix ( 2 lbs tire weight to 1 part pure).  I pour 4-5 times with out hooks to heat my molds up and keep the setting on 7 on my Lee pot.  

 

With lead prices any time you can get good tire weights for free you take them.  Also helps to flux your lead makes it pour better.  I had never done this until I read the thread here on TU.  I don't smoke my molds or use release spray and have never had any problems.  

[wildwolfproducts]

What mold was it you were having issues with? And what was the issue? I have a way to many molds and do have a few that allow issues to pop up. Most times its flashing on some pours, but does not matter if its pure of mixed lead. 

Pete