Bois d'Arc Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I'm new to this site but I'm hoping someone here will have experience with this problem. First I want to say the folks here have posted some great information on tackle making and I've learned a lot in a short time...so thanks to all. Anyway, I have been experimenting with MCU as a finish coat on my hand painted hard plastic lures....with mixed results. The product is made by Graco and is recommended by some lure painters on other sites. The issue is the stuff seems to cause the paint to wrinkle on some lures. Two lures from the same batch with the same pattern may have totally different results when dipped. One perfect...one ruined??? I'm painting with Createx Airbrush Colors paint....nothing fancy...no special thinners...just a drop of distilled water when necessary. I dip the lure and hang it on a drying rack. The room is under AC so its about 76 -78 degrees. Can't figure it out but I sure am tired of ruining a pattern that I've worked hard to get right. Any of the veteran painters on this site have any wisdom to share on the subject of MCU clear coating? Thanks again, to everyone here for sharing some really good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Three thing come to mind. First, be sure your paint is thoroughly dried. Too thick a coat can retain trapped moisture, so be sure to do multiple thin coats, and heat set each coat really well. Second, try a coat of Createx Clear Gloss over the paint before you seal with the Garco. The clear gloss has a much higher film strength than their paints, and should protect the paint. Be sure you clean your airbrush really well after spraying the clear gloss because it will set up like concrete in your brush and be a nightmare to clean if you don't. Last, do a dip in another top coat first, like a water borne urethane, to protect the paint. It will add a stronger layer, too. All urethanes designed as top coats are much stronger than the paints they protect. I've never used MCU, but, from what I've read here, it has a small amount of solvent in it that can affect paint sometimes. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Wise words...I can tell this isn't your first rodeo. I just ordered the Createx Clear Gloss you mentioned....I'll use it and follow your advice on cleaning the brush afterwards. From you comments I can see I may have been dipping the lures too quickly after painting....going forward I'll let them cure overnight then dip. You mention a water based urethane as a pre MCU dip...any more info on that? Where can I get that product....maybe a name of a brand for reference ....sorry if this is a dumb question I'm still in what appears to be a long learning curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I have never used Graco, but have gone back to using DN MCU since figuring out how to store it without losing a lot of product due to exposure to moisture and premature curing. I shoot Createx and Auto Air paints and have never had a wrinkling problem with the paint. With that being said I use a heat gun to dry each layer of paint as it's put on the bait. Using a heat gun to heat set the paint takes some getting used to as you can make plastic lures swell up like a toad frog and also cause air bubbles to rise to the surface in wooden baits which look like little blisters. There are those who say you can't truly "heat set" the paint on a bait, but I'm here to tell you it is indeed possible. After screwing up the paint job on a lure recently I was going to remove the paint and start over. I ended up having to use a brass brush to scrub the paint off because hot water and Dawn dish washing liquid had no effect. So it may be that the problem your having is because the paint has not been sufficiently dried or heat set. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 As Mark said I also do an intercoat clear before applying the top coat never had a problem. I use future floor shine as its acrylic based but as stated clean your brush well it gets pretty hard. Oh and use a respirator stuff is nasty when atomized. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Good information from all of you. From what I'm reading I think I've been in too much of a hurry to finish the lures and didn't heat set properly and then allow enough drying time before using the MCU to clear coat. That combined with not using anything (floor shine, gloss clear, water based urethane) to prep the lure before dipping. The lure making wisdom on this site humbles me. Thanks for sharing. Oh...almost forgot....I have a good respirator and I use it....at my age I can't afford to lose any more brain cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 You'll get it right just remember less is more when applying paint, nice thin light coats with a heat set between and you'll be good, and don't sweat it when you heat set you'll see the sheen go away when the paint outgasses and sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted September 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Following up on the MCU problem.....Here's what I've done so far: I used Createx clear gloss to finish out three lures. I dried them with a heat gun....very carefully . Then dipped them in Pledge FloorCare. After letting them cure overnight I dipped them in MCU. Of the three, two wrinkled moderately and one just a little. Definitely an improvement but still not what I want. MCU: three Me: zero. So after thinking bad thoughts about MCU and throwing a few tools around, I decided to get scientific about this entire mess. I tried going to the local science park, or wherever you go to find a scientist....but I couldn't find a scientist for love nor money. Without a scientist to discuss this with, and desperate for a solution, I took the advise of Mr. Poulson and tried using (waterbased) Minwax Polyacrylic Finish rather than Pledge FloorCare. I took a freshly painted lure and did the first two steps... mentioned above. Then dipped it into the polyacrylic finish...let it cure overnight...and then dipped it in MCU. Honestly, I expected the thing to wrinkle up like an old prune. Next morning....its perfect...smooth as a baby's bottom...nary a wrinkle to be found. Took it to the lake fished it a lot....no problems...you live and you learn. Thanks to everyone who responded to my post...you are wise beyond your years....unless you're over 80.... in that case your just wise . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Glad to hear you were successful, but I didn't suggest the Minwax, so you're in debt to someone else. Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I've tried Dick Nite, Garco, and Famowood MCU and the DN is significantly thinner than the others. Viscosity may be significant to paint wrinkling because MCUs contain strong solvents that can wrinkle acrylic paint if left wet on the surface for too long. And a thicker coating of MCU takes longer for its solvent to flash off. So the lesson may be to use some kind of protective coating over acrylic paint if you go with a thicker MCU like Garco or Famowood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Bob, I dont mean to hijack this thread, but do the other MCU's have a better shelf life? Thats the one reason I stopped using DN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Matt, for me, the Garco and Famowood began to harden in the storage containers even FASTER than DN. I got the Famowood years ago before I became "educated" on storing MCU. I got the Garco last year and tried to preserve it with a wine preservative containing CO2 and Nitrogen, which obviously didn't work out very well - it began to turn to a gel state within a month of receipt. So my experience was hardly scientifically rigorous, but I still think the DN lasts longer maybe because it its thinner and contains more solvent than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Bob, What method do you use to store DN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass100 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I am new to using MCU but I have a mason jar with Garco in it. It has been in the jar now for about 3 1/2 months and there is no hardening at all. I simply used bloxygen. I plan on leaving it in the jar all winter so if anyone is curious just ask and I will let you know how it is holding up but as of right now it is as fluid as it was when I put it in there so I think it will hold up for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I decanted a quart of MCU into 2 Mason jars with rubber seal lids and used Bloxygen, using one jar for dipping crankbaits. Previously, I used salsa jars with constricted necks and the storage results were about the same. The dipping jar lasted about 5 months before it began to harden and the unopened storage jar followed in another 2 months. I really like dipping lures in MCU but the next time I get some, I'll try the "tap the can" method of storage. Several guys report that their MCU remains liquid for the entire can with this method. I'll have to brush it on but saving $25 worth of otherwise wasted MCU is preferable. BTW, polycarbonate (aka Lexan) lips do not form a good bond with MCU, so it tends to separate from the lip after awhile, leaving a flap of loose MCU attached to the nose of a wood bait. You can remove the flap with a razor blade. Not a biggie but it's an esthetic fault that brushing it could avoid. No problem coating plastic lips or circuit board lips. It bonds just fine to those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Thanks Bob. I had the same peeling lip problem with water borne urethane. When I peeled the urethane back to the lure body, and cut it off, I used brush on crazy glue to "seal" the joint between the urethane and the lure body/lip transition. It outlasted the paint job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 As far as how long DN stays usable I got a fresh quart about 6 or 7 months ago and used the "tap the can" method and it's still as liquid as the day it came. I tapped both the bottom side of the can and the lid as well. When the can was upside down while tapping the side I sprayed some Bloxygen into the can after the hole was punched. The screw/valve was then installed and the can was turned right side up. I waited for a while before tapping the top so the Bloxygen would have a chance to settle down and blanket the DN. Then the top was tapped and another screw installed. When I go to use the DN I handle it gently so the Bloxygen will stay on top of the liquid. I figure as long as it doesn't get sloshed around I'm not taking a chance of air ever coming into contact with the DN. So far everything is working well. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) As far as how long DN stays usable I got a fresh quart about 6 or 7 months ago and used the "tap the can" method and it's still as liquid as the day it came. I tapped both the bottom side of the can and the lid as well. When the can was upside down while tapping the side I sprayed some Bloxygen into the can after the hole was punched. The screw/valve was then installed and the can was turned right side up. I waited for a while before tapping the top so the Bloxygen would have a chance to settle down and blanket the DN. Then the top was tapped and another screw installed. When I go to use the DN I handle it gently so the Bloxygen will stay on top of the liquid. I figure as long as it doesn't get sloshed around I'm not taking a chance of air ever coming into contact with the DN. So far everything is working well. Ben Ben, Do you loosen the top screw so air only enters from the top when you take DN from the bottom? Will the layer of Bloxygen stay on top of the DN between the liquid and the in-coming air? Do you have to add additional Bloxygen occasionally? Edited September 28, 2014 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) No Mark. I only add the Bloxygen right after I tap the hole in the side of the can at the bottom. My reasoning behind only adding it once is that air will be drawn into the can as you loosen the top vent screw. It seems to me that adding Bloxygen through the top hole as you use it would create a turbulence inside the can that would disturb the blanket of Bloxygen resting on top of the liquid which could expose the liquid to the moisture laden air. I have no way of proving this, but it makes sense to me and so far I've had absolutely no problems with the DN staying fresh. When I draw DN out of the can I make sure to keep the can level and not shake it up so the blanket of Bloxygen remains on top of the liquid. Seems like I remember someone saying they added Bloxygen through the top vent each time they used it, but haven't heard back from them as to whether or not they had experienced any problems. Ben Edited September 28, 2014 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 That all makes sense. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 My pleasure Mark. (is this where the disclaimer is supposed to go) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 My pleasure Mark. (is this where the disclaimer is supposed to go) It's all your fault anyway, so no need for a disclaimer. Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 It's all your fault anyway, so no need for a disclaimer. Hahaha I hate to say it, but now your sounding like my ex-wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I hate to say it, but now your sounding like my ex-wife. At least you only have one. Mine is more of a multiple choice deal, so I'm never really sure which one is dogging me. Hahahah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 At least you only have one. Mine is more of a multiple choice deal, so I'm never really sure which one is dogging me. Hahahah You must be a slow learner Mark. How many times did you have to stick your hand in the fire before you figured out fire hurts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
