Vodkaman Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Calculating ballast is not difficult, but the key is knowing what the specific gravity (SG) of our material is. My previous post, 'The Archimedes Dunk Test' was about getting the SG information from a lure that was already shaped. Some find the Archimedes a tad complex and daunting, but if you are making your lure from a solid block of material, then there is a simpler method.I have put together a spreadsheet for you guys to have a look at and see what you think. Without getting into too much detail, this is what is involved:1 - take a rectangular block of your material, measure length, height, width and weigh the block. Type the numbers into the specific gravity calculator on the spreadsheet.2 - weigh your carved lure and enter the number into the SG calculator.3 - weigh your hardware and estimate the weight of paint and enter the number into the SG calculator.4 - decide what diameter ballast hole you are going to use and enter the number into the SG calculator.Result - the spreadsheet tells you the approximate length of lead required for neutral buoyancy. You then simply divide this length over however many holes you wish to install.This tool is only intended as an approximation. Because it does not take account of the wood removed when drilling the holes. You will probably end up with a slight sinker, but this is no different to strapping lead to your carved body and dipping in a bucket, you are still going to have to drill holes which will affect the result.The attached image shows that the spreadsheet comes in 3 sections; the SG calculator, ballast calculator, the third section are some extra conversion tools between imperial and metric, should you feel more comfortable with imperial numbers. At the bottom of the page are some simple instructions.Q - So, why go to this trouble?A – this method is a lot less trouble than having to seal your lure, cut the lead, tape it to your lure, fill a bucket of water, float and trim the lead until you get it how you want it.Q – I like the bucket method, so are there any other advantages?A – yes, you can play with the numbers; you can alter the SG numbers to see what the effect of a denser wood has on the length of ballast. You can try different hole sizes to find the ideal length of ballast that suits your installation.Unfortunately TU will not allow the spreadsheet to be uploaded, so if you wish to have a play with the spreadsheet, PM me your email addy and I will send you a copy.Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've been using the Archimedes method ever since first learning about it from Dave a few years ago. IMO it's the quickest and easiest way to figure the ballast for a lure. Even when building multiple numbers of the same bait using the Archimedes test on each bait will compensate for variations in the wood, thickness of the seal coat, etc. from one bait to the next. I wouldn't even try to build a suspending lure without it. just my , Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 And remember, if you over ballast and wind up with a lure that sinks, you can always use a slightly smaller drill bit to remove a bit of the ballast at a time, until you get what you want. You can also use that method to change the attitude of your bait, how it sits in the water. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks Ben. Good point Mark. I have added the file to MediaFire, so you don't have to give up your email addy. Simply click this link and download anonymously. If you do try out the tools, please provide some feedback, either by posting here or PM me – thanks. Dave 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Dave, Ben, Would using colder or warmer water change the Archimedes dunk test results? Tx s56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 S56 - yes it would. But, you could calculate the difference. I have written spreadsheets were you select sea or fresh water. This particular spreadsheet offered above is not going to get you close enough for this to be a concern. It is intended to show you the principle of the method and keep things as simple as possible. If enough interest was generated, I could certainly write something a lot more practical that will deliver neutral buoyancy. I have done this before and even posted a video. Unfortunately YouTube has trimmed all my earlier videos away, so it is no longer available. Probably still on my computer somewhere. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Since Dave has already answered your question S56 let me elaborate a little. IMO a suspending bait is reserved for when fish are sluggish and not feeding aggressively. Generally this is during winter when water temps are low. You want to be able to put a lure in front of the fish and have it sit there when cooler water temps have caused it's metabolism to slow down. To get a bait as close to being a true suspending lure as possible you need to test the bait in the same water temps as what you will be fishing in. Or as close as possible. If the water your fishing in is colder than that used in testing it will rise a little quicker than in did when testing. If the water is warmer than what you tested in the bait can start to sink.I usually try to err on the lighter side when adding ballast to a suspending lure. It will give me a bit faster rise, but it will give me a little wider temperature range that the lure will still work in and not start to sink. I finally broke down and bought some lead thread like that used in tying flies. By wrapping the lead thread around the shank of the hook I can quickly add or remove ballast to suit the fishing conditions. This gives me an even wider temperature range that the lure will work in. To do a ballast check I usually just fill the sink with water and stick the bait in. One thing I learned when testing lures this way is to make sure there are no tiny air bubbles sticking to the bait anywhere. You'd be surprised at how much difference a couple of small bubbles can make when figuring out the amount of lead needed for ballast to get a lure to suspend. By testing in the sink I can adjust the temperature by adjusting the mix between hot and cold water. If the water your fishing in is colder than what comes out of the tap then you'd have to add ice to the mix to get it to the right temp and while your robbing the refrigerator for ice be sure to take the time to make an appointment with your local psychiatrist because it's too dang cold to be fishing. hope some of this helps, Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimP Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Vodkaman: I grabbed your spread sheet, and its good stuff. I also wanted to share the solution that I have been using for a couple of years. Its also shareable with anyone that has "FileMaker" for Windows or MAC or "Filemaker GO" for mobile devices. I put numbers for a material and a carved lure into your file and my version and they match exactly. Math is a wonderful thing! We have a little bit different approach in this respect. Your file tells me how deep to bore a hole into the lure of a size that I specify. My file tells me the total weight needed to reach neutral buoyancy. Total weight is sum weight of all hardware, finish and added ballast. This weight method works for me since I'm adding pre-cast lead weights of various sizes. I have also included a slider that I call "Buoyancy Shift" that allows you to calculate any degree of buoyancy, from positive (float) to negative (sink). Both methods work fine. If anyone has an interest in this let me know, keep in mind without "FileMaker" it will not work. (For personal use only) Jim P Edited March 17, 2015 by JimP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Excellent and relieved that I got the numbers right. I do have other spreadsheets that I built, that worked very well, but it just got out of hand. There were about 4 pages to it. The document stored a library of hardware, so you just selected what you wanted to use. Nothing had to be weighed more than once. You could design a completely new lure and not have to weigh anything. It also took account of the wood removed during drilling. Like I said, it got away from me and was never completely finished. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Thanks Vodkaman. Got it! Very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine_studios Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Can't wait to check this out. Thanks very much for taking the time, it sounds really amazing. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonpluggergino Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have not tested the formula as of now, I have been resetting my computer and every time I have to down load my apps to my PC, windows 8.1 seem to have some issues at least on my HP Pc. I am sure that will be an asset to building glide baits, I have been using Vodkaman Archimedes system and it's accurate and easy, you can actually make suspending baits, keeping in mind water temp will effect your build but for all practical purpose it will work, also muskie baits due to their sizes they are not as critical than a small 3 inch bait. Thank you Dave Gino 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Gino - yes, the bigger the bait, to more chance you have of a suspender. When I was messing with Archimedes and suspenders, I arrived at 1/200th of the final weight is the difference between a slow float and a slow sink.So if you are working with a 1/2 oz lure, the fine tuning has to be less than 0.07 grams or less than .0025 oz. In terms of wire, this is 3cm of 0.5mm dia wire.If your final weight is 3.5 oz, the fine tuning has to be less than 0.49 grams or less than .0175 oz. In terms of wire, this is 5.5cm of 1mm dia wire.Knowing this information and knowing the diameter of your lead wire, you could calculate the length of wire that represents this critical weight.I have added a lead slug weight calculator; this allows you to calculate the weight of a length of lead rod. If you put the wire diameter in here, it will work for wire too.Dave Edited March 20, 2015 by Vodkaman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 For me, I try to get my suspenders to slow float with the smallest hook/split ring setup I want to use, and then I can get them to suspend, or slow sink, by upsizing the split rings, or the hooks, or both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Maxwell Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Dave, You've got way too much time on your hands LOL. Thanks for the information. I have always been impressed with your comments etc. I can almost tell just by the content that you have written it. Keep up the excellent work. Gone fishin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Tony - Thanks for those very nice words. Time is a problem at the moment as I am designing an electric vehicle. Prototype build has started and production is just around the corner. as the sole designer on the 4 man team, it is a mad rush and I am at the computer 16 hours a day, working and sleeping is all I have time for. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fshng2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Thanks Ben. Good point Mark. I have added the file to MediaFire, so you don't have to give up your email addy. Simply click this link and download anonymously. If you do try out the tools, please provide some feedback, either by posting here or PM me – thanks. Dave Dave thanks for sharing the calculator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Dave Thank you for sharing your hard work! Very much appreciated. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Thanks Dave great idea, I seem to remember you P.M'd me something like this years ago - I just downloaded your calculator but I (my P.C) doesn't seem to be able to open it--have I missed something????? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Thanks Dave great idea, I seem to remember you P.M'd me something like this years ago - I just downloaded your calculator but I (my P.C) doesn't seem to be able to open it--have I missed something????? Pete What version of Microsoft Excel are you using? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks Dave both this and the Archimedes Dunk Test are great tools and will make my building easier. Dunk test would probably be easier for ballasting floater/diver lures. bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Scrubs - glad you found a use for the tools. I use both tools side by side, the dunk test is the main tool though. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks Dave, looks like NO version, just done a search and can't find it===guess this is the problem Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Pete, I use open office for everything, too cheap to line Microsoft's pockets. It's free and it opens it just fine. bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Scrubs, thanks mate, just downloaded ''Äpache Open Office'' and Dave's Calculator' works a treat'. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
