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Omg I Just Have To Vent

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Please - leave auto clear to the auto paint professionals - Ben is not being over cautious, the stuff is dangerous to you and everyone around you. It amazes me that you can actually buy this stuff, especially in USA! It should be banned from sale to the public!

 

Dave

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My fishing partner is an auto painter and says that kidney and liver problems are a common thing with painters. I myself know two that have had issues one of them ended up with a kidney transplant and disabled. I have also heard this same thing from people outside that trade so although I have access to auto clear if I want a bait cleared that way I drop it off at the body shop he works at and they shoot them in a booth with exhaust fans and respirators. It's just not something I want to mess with.

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I know all about those catfish bats :lol:. As for auto clears, i gave it a thought, but first talked to my neighbor whos an auto body guy and basically learned that he doesn't even mess with it its that bad. I also learned that my state has banned quite a few older kinds due to air quality control and toxicity to us. Now im sticking to the local epoxies.

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I didn't read through all of this to see if its done ben said or not, but the alcohol will cause the epoxy not to harden. you can get by with a few drops but that's it. go over board and you got a bait that wont harden in a year.

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A few drops of laquer thinner works for me with epoxy. Also makes it less brittle which is my least favorite qualities of epoxy. If you hit a rock on a flat part of a bait, you can kiss that paint job goodbye.

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I use etex in my basement and up here in ND it get's pretty cold. My epoxy crystallized and I used the hot water trick. It worked a bit but I think I had it in the cold closet a bit too long. I still love the stuff for the most part....except when I don't. Which is when I get fish eyes, my cat messes with it, I drop the lure, I slip when I'm drilling out the line tie, I pull off epoxy and paint when I forget to take the tape off the bill before I epoxy the bait, when I spill it on my workbench and I don't notice until it cures etc. etc. etc.

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Holy crap, maybe that's it, the alcohol. Riverotter, I've been using alcohol to thin because I thought that maybe the lacquer thinner might have been whats turning my baits the pink color after a while. Maybe I've been putting too much alcohol in my mix??? Anyone else experience this?

 

Thanks to all that have posted to help me out with my delima

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Holy crap, maybe that's it, the alcohol. Riverotter, I've been using alcohol to thin because I thought that maybe the lacquer thinner might have been whats turning my baits the pink color after a while. Maybe I've been putting too much alcohol in my mix??? Anyone else experience this?

 

Thanks to all that have posted to help me out with my delima

 

I've just always used a few drop drops of DA Fishnart. There have been a couple times I added way more than I wanted (I've gotten more clumsy as I've gotten older) and while it took longer to cure it did eventually cure and there were no noticeable differences that I could tell.

 

Ben

 

Ben

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Thanks Ben, I hope this is the case. I tell ya, out of the past 20 baits I've done 10 didn't cure all the way. While typically I get one on a rare occasion, it's never been this bad. I also noticed that out of these two sets of epoxy, I can only get one bait done comfortably and had to rush the second because I could feel the epoxy starting to cure. When in the past I could squeak out three and on a good day four. I'm wondering if I'm mixing it too long, cause in the past I thought maybe I hadn't mixed it enough. I love the end result of epoxy but ugh, it stresses me out hahahaha. Especially when its a clients bait that he only has one of, trying to fix this is hard to do sometimes you know...

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There are a good many folks that can do 3 or 4 baits with the 30 minute epoxy, but I've finally realized that the best I can do is 2 at the most. It's probably because I take a little longer to make sure everything is covered and that there are no bubbles anywhere. Instead of trying to hurry myself so I can squeak out another bait or two I've just accepted the fact that my limit is 2 baits and I mix the amount of epoxy accordingly. Of course I'm not doing baits for sale so I have no need to hurry. Something that Bobp has said more than once is that "building baits will teach you patience". I have to admit it took me a while to learn that, but it finally sunk in.

 

Ben

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rayburn guy. try using a 1/2 in vinyl brush. you can get em at wal mart they have a blue handle, and come in a pack of 3 or 4. I just throw the others away unless you have another use for them. clean it with lacquer thinner when done. I been using the same brush for a month and have probably cleared over 300 baits with it. if you must thin your epoxy just heat it up a little with a hair dryer or heat gun.

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I'm not really worried about trying to get faster since I don't build baits for sale riverotter. I can apply an epoxy top coat to a couple baits and have plenty of time to check for bubbles, voids or any of the other gremlins associated with applying an epoxy top coat. As far as the brushes go I've got some that I've been using for several years and they're still going strong. When done I clean them by dipping in DA and scrubbing them on a clean paper towel. When they're to a point to where I think they're clean I dip them in acetone and scrub them a few more times on a paper towel to remove any DA that may be left behind. The acetone flashes off fairly quickly and leaves me with a clean, dry brush.

 

Not saying my way is any better than what anyone else is doing, but this is what I've come up with over a period of time and it works for me.

 

Ben

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never tried da and acetone

 

wish someone would have told me that before I threw several brushes away lol..

 

:lol::D:lol:  Now where would the fun be if everything was easy and went according to plan? I was once told that suffering builds character and it must be true. Just look at the "character" I've turned into. :teef:

 

Ben

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Well I appreciate that riverotter. Now if I could just figure out hot to use an airbrush like you and some of the others guys around here I would be a happy camper.

 

If you ever decide to delve deeper into the dark side of lure building, and I can offer any assistance, feel free to holler. :yay:

 

Ben

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I use E-tex and I don't have any problems that you are going through. Why not use it? Too thick? Don't like it? If one thing doesn't work or you have a high failure rate why not move on? Why be like a chemist mix this and that and mix it like this, only have 3 min to apply. ... E-tex I mix it apply it and all done except for the wait.

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For me it's a personal choice. When using epoxy I prefer the 30 minute variety over decoupage epoxies like Etex. I apply one coat and I'm done. All that remains is allowing it to cure. As far as the failure rate it's next to nothing. About the only failures I have is when a bait is dropped on the carpet, or some other unforeseen accident occurs. And these things can't really be counted as failures because the epoxy had nothing to do with them. I don't see those things as a "high failure rate".

 

I don't see where adding a couple drops of DA to the epoxy is anything like being a "chemist". It's not like I'm in a basement somewhere with Bunsen burnings going and various colored liquids bubbling in flasks and beakers with a maniacal  laugh going on in the background.

 

There are very few dyed in the wool rules to choosing a top coat. Most of us have found something we like and figured out a way to make it work for us. In all actuality there are very few products designed specifically for building lures. The 30 minute brand of epoxies are designed to affix one part to another. Epoxies such as Etex are designed to cover and protect bar tops, counters, etc.  Neither of which has anything to do with building lures.

 

The only time I won't consider epoxy as a top coat is when I am building fairly small lures whose actions are susceptible to increased weight. Then I will use a moisture cured urethane such as DN S81.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to convert anyone. If you like what your using and have good results with it then by all means continue to use it. You can ask pretty much anyone that's been building baits for a while and they will tell you they have a system they've developed over a period of time that works for them. The question then would be "if it ain't broke why fix it"?

 

Ben

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You guys are talking about cleaning brushes etc, After each mix I scrape the epoxy out of the mixing cups and clean them with LThinner and clean my brush. Its a pain when you re doing many baits as sometimes I have ten or more baits to do. And I really stress getting the exact amount of each part of the epoxy, the whole process is stressful for me hahahaha, and then there's the worrying that they're not going to turn out or cure. That's what happened this time, hens the reason for this post. Out of about 20 baits that I did in one session, 10 didn't cure properly. And I've never had that happen before, and I don't think I had done anything different that I could tell. That's why I was so puzzled. And actually, I've done two or three of those over several times, sanding and stripping them each time. A guy sent me these specific baits to do so I had to keep refinishing them. That's why I was wondering if it was something with the epoxy, except for the baits that did cure?? I've never had that many in a batch not cure. Let me add this...the epoxy I was using wasn't Devcon, it was epoxy that I'd gotten from a Hobby store and Hobby Lobby, I'm sure its the same stuff without Devcons name on it??? Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

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To me, there is only one solution to preparing epoxy and that is syringes. Some epoxies come in linked syringes, these are quite good, but you have to take care how you store them, so that they are nose down at all times. I buy epoxy in larger volumes, it comes in tins and measure out with indexed syringes from the chemist.

 

I keep the syringes plugged and stored vertically, being very careful not to let any air in. Once air gets in, it is difficult to judge the measure and the contents cannot be trusted. I clean the syringes out and start again fresh.

 

What annoys me, is the squeeze tubes of epoxy. The components are different consistencies and dispense in different diameters. How can you possibly get close to equal volumes when one flattens out and the other stays in a round blob.

 

As for mixing, the best container for mixing is the bottom of a fizzy drink container. There are no difficult corners for the epoxy to hide. When done, you wipe them out with a piece of old rag and let the remains cure for re-use. If you get into the habit of collecting the cans, you rarely have to re-use, especially if your family help out.

 

Another method that I use, is to flatten a lump of kids modelling clay, cover it in plastic kitchen roll, then form into a dish. When done, the plastic is discarded and a new piece added. Use a rounded Popsicle stick for mixing. The sticks are best re-used, as they become smoother with a coating of epoxy. In fact, when the epoxy builds up too much, I grind then down on the belt sander, it takes a few seconds.

 

Using epoxy doesn't have to be difficult. It is just a matter of finding a method, a routine that works for you. A repeatable quality finish can only be achieved if your method is repeated and consistent.

 

Dave

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As for brushes; mine get used hundreds of times, be it epoxy or resin or whatever. I have two glass bottles, one with used acetone, the other with fresh. The first wash is with the used. I have a length of very hairy rough cut timber that I scrub the brushes on. This gets right into the roots of the brush. I then repeat with clean acetone.

 

The used clean acetone is then poured into the first bottle. The debris settles, so take a few seconds every few uses to decant into a fresh bottle and you can make the most of the acetone.

 

Dave

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Forgot to mention and MarkNY's post about fisheyes reminded me; if you buy syringes from a chemist, they usually have a thin coating of silicone grease inside the tube, so first job is to thoroughly degrease the syringe. Really, the same goes for any surface or container that you intend to mix epoxy.

 

Just 'cos it looks clean, doesn't mean it is.

 

Dave

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im betting you kept thinning the epoxy as you went. the last ten you done are the ones that probably didn't cure. or you done it in two batches and the last 5 of each batch.  

 

is that correct?

 

I have done several hundred maybe 1000 in the last three months. I don't use any thinner other than a little heat when I first mix it up. I cant remember any that did not cure. I just guess at the amount for mixing the hardner  and epoxy.

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