Jump to content
JRammit

Hard Bait Help From A Fly Guy

Recommended Posts

Hi fly guys!

Ive never been here other than lurking (mainly about crappie jigs)... Youll see me some day soon.. I make soft plastic crappie baits, but usually catch more on maribous (which i havnt attempted to make... Yet)

But my question here pertains to a bass lure

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/gallery/image/14631-hungry-popper/

Its a topwater tamdem bait of sorts... I figure yall to be the experts on leaders, so i place my inquiry in your hands......

I used 20 lb mono as the leader between the 2 pieces, which works well since mono floats... But tying the 2 loop knots leaves my leader length in the hands of fate

Is there a better material i could use? Preferably translucent and floating like mono....... If not, is there a more "acurate" knot i could use?..... I thought of twisting the mono and wrapping with thread and superglue, but wary about the durability of such an experiment....

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JRammit:

 

My first thought is to crimp the ends.  As in metal sleeves and a crimping tool, like used to make wire leaders. You could also add a touch of exopy or UV cure resin to make an even tighter bond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply Jim!.... I didnt know you could crimp mono, but that would look quite professional compared to my loop knots!

How much weight could i expect to add using the metal sleeves??... Say compared to the weight of a snap swivel??... That little 1" teaser on the front of my bait is a finicky one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JRammit, I would "Whip" the bight end to the standing line with nylon line. To insure protection apply 2 part epoxy to both of  the whipped ends.

Your line will float and the work will have the traditional look of craftsmanship and skill. 

Check youtube to see how to whip lines and rope. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saltwater, that's exactly what i had in mind, only i didn't know it was that simple!... I was worried that nothing holds the loop from pulling out of the thread, but i just watched a guy do it on his fly line for carp.... If the whip can hold a carp, then a bass wont stand a chance!!!

Thanks!

Jeremy

Edited by JRammit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A blood knot is what you are looking for to tie your two lines together. Fly guys use it for this purpose all the time.

Im not tying 2 lines together, im tying 2 lures together... Looking to get the same length between them every time, and make it look professional!... The whip sounds like a winner!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't see your link with your set up on the previous post. I see what you are doing now, and BTW Nice lures you made.

The Whip Finish will definitely work.

Another option is Lefty Kreh's Loop Knot or also called the Non-Slip Mono Knot.

Knothttp://www.animatedknots.com/nonslipmono/index.php?Categ=fishing&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Edited by fshng2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A floating line connecting the two lures will produce different in-water characteristics than a sinking mono filament line. A floating line connection will partially offset the weight of a tie, a sleeve, a swivel or a loop, which may or may not be useful. Here is line from Monic of Denver. http://www.burnsfishingsupplies.com/MONIC-LITE-FLOATING-MONOFILAMENT-FISHING-LINE-MLITE.htm

 

I like it.

 

Floating is better for me than sinking. Now if somebody could fix memory, <grrrr>

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A floating line connecting the two lures will produce different in-water characteristics than a sinking mono filament line. A floating line connection will partially offset the weight of a tie, a sleeve, a swivel or a loop, which may or may not be useful. Here is line from Monic of Denver. http://www.burnsfishingsupplies.com/MONIC-LITE-FLOATING-MONOFILAMENT-FISHING-LINE-MLITE.htm

I like it.

Floating is better for me than sinking. Now if somebody could fix memory, <grrrr>

John

Hollow mono huh??... Hmmm??.... That's a good option! Getting some good stuff here!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, say line to the front lure floats, the front lure floats, the line joining lures floats and the back lure floats, then multiple design opportunities exist. The face on the prey-like lure can be designed to mimic fleeing prey while the predator lure lure face can be designed to more nearly replicate a pursuing predator.

 

Given your pic and the above conditions, I would offer 3 suggestions. 1. Although the cup mounted face in the popper makes excellent water disturbance to attract Big Bass, perhaps a face more conducive to predator pursuing prey would be more successful. 2. The front lure might be more successful if its face more nearly replicated a fleeing or injured minnow. 3. In order to minimize lure consistency, somewhere, in front or between lures (after testing), I would tie in a piece of Rodney Long's bungee cord line. When twitched, the bungee line would make the trailing lure speed up like it was trying to swallow the front lure.  Just some thoughts.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, say line to the front lure floats, the front lure floats, the line joining lures floats and the back lure floats, then multiple design opportunities exist. The face on the prey-like lure can be designed to mimic fleeing prey while the predator lure lure face can be designed to more nearly replicate a pursuing predator.

Given your pic and the above conditions, I would offer 3 suggestions. 1. Although the cup mounted face in the popper makes excellent water disturbance to attract Big Bass, perhaps a face more conducive to predator pursuing prey would be more successful. 2. The front lure might be more successful if its face more nearly replicated a fleeing or injured minnow. 3. In order to minimize lure consistency, somewhere, in front or between lures (after testing), I would tie in a piece of Rodney Long's bungee cord line. When twitched, the bungee line would make the trailing lure speed up like it was trying to swallow the front lure. Just some thoughts.

John

I like the bungee idea!.. But who would carry it?... I couldnt find anything under 1/8" on Google

As for changing it up... This is the 1st "Hungry Lure", but not the last

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rodney Long Spectastic. His bungee cord is called ballistic cord  now  and sold now by Secret Weapon lures. http://www.secretweaponlures.com/arsenal/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=134

 

I don't fish this way except with some grand kids so I can't help you much more.

 

I have diddled with Rods bungee cords using  a big topwater fly pulling a bungee cord on a deep water dropper casted up against rock walls. Honestly I did not test it too much because it caught little and middle sized bass, it did not work on Big Bass which is my interest. To me the bungee cord gave both lures a   herky-jerky motion that may look unnatural to picky ole momma bass.Keep me posted on what you find. May have to revisit this with floating line in the mix.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I decided on the wrap/whip meathod

This is my 1st try... Keep in mind, i have no fly tying equipment (yet).... This was attempted with a spool of the wifes sewing thread (no bobbin, just the spool), bench vice and vice grips

I must have done something wrong... It took a little muscle, but i was able to pull both loops out of the wrap...... Is there a trick i dont know??..... I used super glue for the test, would epoxy yield the strength i need?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be useful if you could post a sketch of the knot that you are tying off with.

Because the item you are whipping is open ended, then this makes for a simple tie off. You obviously are using something more complex, as you mention two loops.

I will try describing the knot that I would be using:

1 - wrap towards the end (vise end in your image).

2 - when wrapped enough, make a large loop, laying along the wrap.

3 - continue wrapping six more times, trapping the loop line.

4 - remove from vise and slip loop over end of item.

5 - pull the trapped tag (place end back in vise to make easier).

This may need a sketch.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try number 10?.. Or 14?.. Or.. I lost count

They are getting stronger (and less ugly).. But im still able to pull them out (barely)

Dave, i kept breaking my thread trying your knot, im sure i got it wrong........ So i tried wrapping the loop itself 6 times, then over the open end (screw eye) as you said, then pulling the loop closed with the tag end......

I cant say it worked, i can't say it didnt.... But i can say i dont want to see this spool of thread again for the rest of the night!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would you try to tie an open ended loop with fly tying thread when there are perfectly good loop knots that can be tied in the mono itself?

Ben

http://videofishingknots.com/loops.html

Ben, thats what i did with the 1st lure... The problem is trying to tie 2 knots the exact same length apart every time

Plus i was hoping this way would look better, but so far no dice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Attempt number twenty something (or maybe thirty)...... Even coated in epoxy it will not pass my strength test... Hanging 2 gallon water jugs (aprox 16 lbs) the mono pulls out of the thread every time

This time i even left a small piece of the mono tag end out of the wrap hoping to gain more friction... No dice

Ive started writing down my steps:

1) 10 tight wraps

2) dab superglue

3) cut off thread tag

4) 20 wraps away from screw eye

5) 20 wraps toward screw eye

6) dab superglue (since i cant get the knot right)

7) cut off thread from spool

B) coat with 5 min epoxy

9) test

10) fail

I'm not one to give up... But i have to wonder if this is even possible??... Has anyone actually done this with mono??? Or am i doing something wrong????

More wraps? Stronger thread? Thicker mono? Gasoline and matches???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not an expert when it comes to knots, but it's my belief that the way you are trying to accomplish this is not going to work. Mono has a slick surface which works against you from the very start. I don't believe you will ever create enough friction between the tag end and standing line of the mono to ever make this type of connection hold. You might try using the same type of crimps as those used to make loops in cable and wire. I've seen this type of connection used on mono, but it was with much heavier line (like that used in saltwater) and with a much greater surface area than what you are using. If you can find crimps in the size needed for the line you are using it would come closer to working than trying to tie a loop with thread because there is no way you can put anywhere close to the same tension on the line with thread as you can with the proper size crimps..

 

Another option would be to build a jig to tie the loops. This could be done by driving small nails into a board to create the size loops you want as well as keeping the distance uniform between the loops. It may not be perfect, but with a couple tries you could most likely end up with something that would be acceptable.

 

Just my :twocents:

 

Ben

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...
Top