64 replies to this topic
Posted 10 August 2004 - 08:48 AM
My niece accidently wacked a DB-3 on the side of the boat and the lip snapped off. I was surprised to discover that the wire running from the line tie into the bait only extends about 1/2 to 5/8 inch into the bait. Obviously, they aren't thru-wire like the old ones used to be. Now, I'm a little concerned with this bait since we use it for Musky at times. What do you think about the strength of this type of construction that I described on the new DB-3's? Thanks.
Posted 10 August 2004 - 09:07 PM
I am not impressed with any of the new Bagley's. They sure don't make them like they used to. It doesn't surprise me that the line tie isn't a through-wire, they have went from quality construction to quantity construction.
Posted 10 August 2004 - 09:41 PM
More than likely the lip was made out of plastic and
not Lexan. Most of the baits on this site have Lexan
lips and the wire only goes to the back of the lip.
Posted 10 August 2004 - 11:01 PM
Coley, I hope you didn't think I was meaning that if the line tie isn't a through-wire then construction is not quality. I was refering to the way Bagley's are made now and it doesn't really relate to the line tie. More to the bill placement, among other little things.
Posted 10 August 2004 - 11:29 PM
Definitely the old Bagleys were made better. Just more care given when they were making them. The DBIIIs to my knowledge were never wire thru. The ones that were made with the weight in the lip may have been. I have never torn one apart. I have a DKBII made this way. The hole at the end of the slot and the extended wire are to line the lip up and to keep it from twisting while the hot glue set. Bagley used hot glue to put their lips in. They will never pull out. I still have not found a clean way to get the lip out without screwing up something. I bought some a couple of years ago from the local tackle shop. They were made in the Dominican Republic. I took them back. They were a mess. Alas Bagley has been sold so many times that it is hard to say if they are still worth it. I do believe that if you can look them over before you buy they are still pretty good. My suggestion is that you get them from Lee Sission. He worked for Bagley starting in 1973. He still makes these types of lures. I saw them and talked to Lee at the Classic tackle show. Some real fine work. They are made the right way. They way they use to be made. I don't know of any commercial store bought balsa baits that will handle more than a few muskie. The clearcoats just aren't tough enough. I made a balsa bait for a guy on this site to take out and test on anything big and toothy. The balsa was completely clearcoated with Devcon. Then the paint was sprayed directly on the Devcon and then another coat of Devcon was put over the paint. That is about as bullet proof as you can make a balsa lure. Unfortunately, he took the bait and ran. He never posted how the bait held up.
Posted 11 August 2004 - 10:09 PM
The only lure Bagley ever made with the through wire construction was the bango lure. I have tore apart a many (several 1000) to know.
Posted 11 August 2004 - 10:18 PM
You mean the BBII was NEVER a wire thru?????? Now I'm starting to get pissed.
Posted 11 August 2004 - 10:41 PM
Nope none of them except the bango lure. Not even the Old Lead Lips.
Posted 11 August 2004 - 10:44 PM
Just the Bango Lures. In the 1980's and 90's, most people never found out how they were made unless they stepped on them, or slapped them against a boat or a motor cowl. That is until Jim Bagley sold.
And yes, occasionally Muskie have removed a hook anchor or bill from some of the older Bango-B's especially. But I've seen alot a big muskie taken not only on these lures, but on the bass size B's too.
Posted 12 August 2004 - 11:52 AM
I have question for the Bagley experts here. I have a Bagley brass wire lead lip Monster Shad that on occasion will hunt on a fast retrieve. My question: What is responsible for that action?
Posted 12 August 2004 - 03:07 PM
It depends on what you call hunt. I have talked with several pros and done lures for several pros and each and everyone of them describe it differently. One of the Japanese pro's (won't mention no names) likes his with the lip angle at a certain angle and the nose hanger in a certain place. But some of the others say just do them normally and I can adjust them to make them hunt. So who knows.
Posted 12 August 2004 - 04:02 PM
I have hundereds of old bagleys I dont use should I break one of the messed up BBII in half so we can know for sure?
Posted 12 August 2004 - 05:03 PM
Basic Hunting Fundamentals in laymans terms! IMHO. I think that a bait that hunts has a few factors involved. But first picture this in your mind... Have you ever driven down the road with your arm out the window?? Well if your hand is flat the wind will keep it staright and even, when your arm is straight and can remain straight... you found the central axis to make it run true... but if you move even the slightest fraction your arm will shoot off to the side. The hand will act like a rudder on an airplane and "STEER IT TO THE OTHER SIDE". Well the same principal in a lure or bait that hunts is applied here... So the factors that would or could be for a hunting lure are ... a forgiving lure, depending on its wood or plastic make up, or forgiving hook eyes.. such as brass. They are more "pliable" or less forgiving than the usual stainless ones. I also think that a flat sided lure also helps in determining whether a lure will hunt or not. I think that a flat side bait can hunt better only cause it has a built in rudder... its flat sides! Any slight variations or twitches in the rod tip can cause the lure to come off its central axis and shoot to the side. I dont know... i could be way off... I slept during physics in school!! But it sounds good! Cody
Posted 12 August 2004 - 10:13 PM
Check out this post that I did on hunting crankbaits.....
I agree with your Japanese pro. By the way, I'm originally from Fern Creek. My family still lives there. Got too crowded for this baitmaker.
Don't cut them up, I'm sure jrfan8 and Dean know what they are talking about. If you want to get rid of some of those busted up baits let me know. Maybe we could work something out.
Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:44 AM
I have had numerous baits over the years that would hunt (i.e... dart to the left & right and return to original line of retrieve).
The most notable, a Bag-O-Mad bait which was produced in the 30's. It's basic shape was that of many of the baits of that era, Heddon Basser, Bass Oreno and many others, however, that is where the similarities end. The Bag-O-Mad has 2 channels drilled into the mouth which continue to the center of the bait where they intersect a channel at 90 degrees that is only open on one side. I had one of those baits as a kid that I never really had much luck with in the ponds and lakes that I fished, however, once while fishing a fast stream in southern Missouri and having no luck. I tied it on and tossed it in the current, the bait came alive here there and everywhere it went. The faster I reeled my zebco the more radical the action was, until it almost travelled in a sinewave fashion, which did manage to put a couple a nice smallmouths on the stringer. I have never had another bait act like that Bag-O-Mad did and have spent countless hours tinkering with various baits trying to duplicate the action, without any success. I would like to build a bait that would act in that fashion and is similiar in appearence to modern baits. My thoughts are there is some harmonic imbalance created by the speed of retrieve and the action of the bait. Which throws the bait off course until the resistance of the line overcomes the initial force causing the bait to move sideways, this causes the bait to slow and track back to center, until the threshold (whatever that maybe) is reached again and the bait moves off course. However, who knows for sure! Skeeter, you did a fine job on that tutorial! I appreciate the input from everyone, which gives me plenty of food for thought!
Posted 13 August 2004 - 07:05 PM
I have a question about these baits that hunt.
When this erratic movement happens, does it always happen to the same side? Or do they dart to the left one time and to the right the next?
Posted 13 August 2004 - 10:46 PM
The general thought is that they move to both sides. The ones that I have made do. However, I guess they could go to just one side. The one thing that I have never really paid any close attention to is whether they move about the same distance on each side. Maybe one side could be more dominant. Time to hit the pool.
Posted 14 August 2004 - 11:56 AM
If I wanted to go to the store and buy a bait that hunts, what lure would have the best chance of having hunting characteristics. I just want to see the baits design and I know that this hunting thing seems to be a hit and miss deal.
Posted 14 August 2004 - 10:41 PM
Getting a hunting crankbait is a hit and miss deal. Your best shot at a store bought bait would be a Balsa BI, BII, or BIII with the short square bill. The only problem with these baits is getting one with the lips square and straight.
Posted 15 August 2004 - 08:57 PM
In regards to the debate as to bagleys being thru-wire construction. I can definetively say no! I took a ohm meter and measured the resistance from the line tie to the rear wire loop, infinite resistance, open..no wire thru-construction. This was tried on brass wire and newer baits, with the exclusion of Bango's! In addition, the belly wire wasn't connected to either the front or rear wire.