Party Crasher

Bagley DB-3's

65 posts in this topic

tally,

Trash those BB's they suck, go on ebay and look for some older ones. I like the older BB's best (brass hangers) some of the newer ones are ok but 5 out of 10 have the lips in crooked and won't swim right :pissed: The newest BB's with the 2 line ties I have found to be the worst, the action is completley different and they should'nt even be called bagleys.

jrfan8,

Are you using the lead in lips for fishing? I have found while the lures are very nice the lips are too brittle for me and break very esially, in the rock bottoms we have around here (which is mainly what I fish). After I had a db2 in the color #070 on your site break and latter find out how valuble it was I hung all mine up and have been selling most of them and keeping only the ones I really like.

Here are some bagley's I have retired lots of DB's lead lips DKB's lead lips SMall Frys lead lips looking to trade for square lips newer older no double ties also the orginal square liped killer b's since I still fish all of these lures they seem to be very good in structure. I am looking foward to having jrfan8 paint some BB's for me. (If anyone would like to trade any bagleys give me a PM )

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Since Bagley has been sold several times then I guess that there are different qualities of these baits. The lead in the lip is to help the lure maintain the proper posture while the lure is on the bottom. This posture can be obtained several different ways. The double line ties are to change the action of the bait by changing the tow point. Other than finding one that is made just right (straight body, lip etc.) which people seem to brag about when they find one that is made right, I am beginning to see the value of collecting these things. I don't see why folks don't make their own. The big thing for the collectors over the past couple of years has been the brass wire thing. Amatuers believe the brass wire is what makes the baits possibley hunt. Therefore they throw tons of money away on Ebay hoping to buy a bait that hunts. They are advertised on Ebay a full brass harnesses or just brass wire harnesses. Many believed that there was a wire harness in the bait. I myself thought that the older ones had a wire harness from nose to tail. But after what was posted on here about which Bagley baits had a true wire harness on them I felt like a fool. So what would be the difference between these "collector" pieces and on that you would make yourself and just "screw" your wire in the nose and the tail? If you take your time you will probably make a better bait by far!! There are baitmakers that can take these lures and make them perform the way they should. Some buyers get lucky and buy a good one off of the shelf. I make mine with a full two point brass wire harness. The bodies and lips are straight, the clearcoat is superior and some of them really do hunt. I think I will put them on ebay and sell them for $80.00 plus.

Skeeter

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You guy's may be surprised to know I have several old norman shallow little N's that hunt very well. They are partially the reason I am finally getting into custom painting.

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Right on Skeeter!

I have in the neighborhood of 250 Bagley lures, all but a couple made before the company was sold the first time. I have very few of the brass wire models, simply because most didn't physically survive. These are for sure the least durable lures Bagley ever produced. Eventually Bagley went to hardwood inserts or dowels, glued into balsa and screw-eyes screwed into the dowels. For my money, these were the highest quality DB-III's and Deep Killer B's ever produced, and I caught a ton of fish on them. "Brass wire harness" is very misleading; I wasn't by myself in having a big bass pull hooks out of those early lures. Every change in the lures over the years that it was Jim Bagley's company, was done in the interest of durability.

Now, that being said, those lures still had to be made to a marketable price point. I know a lot of TU guys who make better lures than Bagley or Lee Sisson or etc., simply because we do not have to compromise on time, hardware, and lure materials, not to mention all of the knowledge shared thru TU. Point being, if you want the best wooden crank, the knowledge base is here, and the lures and luremakers are here, who can make, paint, and sell lures better than anything built by anyone producing lures for the mass-market.

For me personally, I think "hunting" on a straight retrieve is over-rated. It is much more important to me how the lure reacts upon hitting cover and structure.

Dean

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This is an excellent thread. I have learned a ton. Even though you all say the one's with 2 wobble settings are junk, as far as design, are they the same as the old ones? Body and Lip?

Tally

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Tally,

Here is a pic of some BB's I like mostly #1'S AND #2'S the top one is the older style brass hardware second is the improved wedge lip only made one year, next is a B-Flat I higly reccomend this bait next is a newer BB in a tiger color this is the last quality model I belive no rattle for more boyancy so it backs up quicker in snags one line tie. Next we have the disappointment the duel line tie it has a rattle is less boyant the action is not the same. I would say if you start off fishing these baits you won't be disoppointed but may not get the best of bagleys I would suggest looking on ebay for some older modles.

Dean,

I was also shocked how much people care about hunting it never seemed like that much of a deal breaker untill I read this post :| I would rather have a bait that is more snag resistant, sucks loosing cranks :(

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TM,

Excellent point about the wedge lip. Do you know what year the lure is. You have some fine looking lures. Many seem to be in real good shape.

Tally,

Yes, the lure bodies were basically the same as far as size is concerned. I have noticed that the ones made in the Dominican Republic have a more of a pointed tail. The bodies are pretty crooked also. The rattles that are used in these baits are an aspirin shaped piece in a little square box. It is installed slightly behind the belly weight up toward the middle of the bait. I really haven't figured out how it was installed yet. But it was a real neat job. I see no evidence of glue, putty, or cutting of any kind to get it in there. I know I am missing something, but I have a better eye than most. This was one slick job.

The line tie will change the action. Just like changing the position of the line tie in a lip. I really can't say much about the lure other than that. I have never fished one.

Skeeter

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Hey Guys, I have a few Bagleys and one was in bad shape, so I operated on it to see what made it work. Skeeter the weight you mentioned was added by drilling a hole part way through the side of the bait. The little round plastic box was inserted into the hole and the small asprin shaped lead weight went in next with the plastic cover on top. After this was done, a balsa plug was glued in place, sealed and painted over. If you look close from the inside, you can see the grain of the plug running a different direction than the body of the lure. Joe

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Skeeter,

Most of the bagley's I have are near mint, the wedge lip was either 70' or 71' if you can find those cheap jump on it I have seen them go on ebay from 20-80 I still fish w/ some sometimes.

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That's funny, just goes to show you etc, I liked the looks of that particular lip, it looked heck-for-stout, I fished them hard, they held up well, I caught a few fish on them but I don't remeber anything big. I gradually lost confidence in them and they fell out of my widest rotation: I was glad when they changed them, and so were all of my fellow Bagley fanatic friends. I fished the BBI's and III's in productive colors and grew to believe the wedge lip, while durable, was a mistake, and it was a popular opinion in many fishing circles.

:lol: Dean

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Thanks TM. I did not know what year those wedge lips were made. You are right. All of the BI, BII, and BIII's all sell for a fair amount of money, especially the ones with the brass line ties.

Skeeter

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:?

Please correct me if I am thinking wrong here.

If the only one to have thru wire construction was the Bango lure and my best chance of getting a store bought bait to hunt is a BI, BII or a BIII, is it safe to say that thru wire doesn't play a role in getting a bait to hunt? Could it be the brass line tie is the key?

Tally

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Also, the first Bagley lures were the lightest they ever were, with their lighter lips, hardware, a little less paint and clearcoat, no dowels for hook anchors, etc. Couple this with the lead in the lip in the Deep B's, and you have a significantly different lure balance than the average crank today. I have no idea if they changed balsa density over the years, but I know Jim grew fond of the screw-eye in a hardwood spine.

I think if I wanted a crank to hunt fairly predictably I would raise the center of gravity within the lure by moving the weight up higher, or, by taking a bit of weight out of the lure. Just an opinion, you know what they say...

Dean

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Bagley defiantly changed the density of the wood they used. The wood from the 60's was very light weight, in the 70s it got a little tougher and so on to today?s lures. Plus the paint that they use now is totally different than what they used to use. I personally like the old ones that the lips break out of if you whack them on the water or if a fish hits them they may take a chunk of wood. Although not as durable they are a much more reliable lure to me. And heck if I break them I can always fix them.

I had a guy send me a bunch of old BB's (probably 60s or 70s model) that were just totally destroyed. When he got them back he was amazed. I have to say that Bagley's are my specialty. Next time I rip one apart (should be soon) I will post picture for you all to see.

Believe it or not a lot of the BB4's that you guys have, have probably at one time or another was cut in half by Bagley. For what reason I do not know but a lot of them that I get to refinish have been cut right before the lure thins down for the tail and then glued back together. I don't know if maybe those are from a batch that were mis cut and made to small so they just cut them and added more length to them.

TM---- yes I do fish the ones with the lead in lip. Those old lips like I said may break easier but they make the lure run totally different than the new lips they use. Probably because the old lips are thinner and will vibrate. Heck I could be wrong on that thought.

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Tally,

I would have to say that it is in part to the line tie placement and the weight used in the lure. Also lip placement and angle are extremely important.

Skeeter

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hey all! Great thread by the way.

I took TM's advice and bought an older bagley's with the brass lead line tie on ebay. I really like this lure. It's pretty beat up but it only cost me two bucks. I'm debating as to whether or not I want to re-finish it or just leave it alone. The paint on the lure is cracked in some places and the portion by the back hook hanger is devoid of paint and the wood is split. Also, there are several puncture marks on the top and sides of the lure.

Should I leave the lure alone or re-finish it? And if so, what's the best way to re-do this lure?

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Tally,

I have had a few norman shallow baby little n's that are cheap, these were the old modles 80's. I lost both of the ones I fished but still have many. These seemed to hunt well (although it never seem to matter much to me) I have a bunch that are old and need to be re-painted. They may hunt, who knows? I will send you one and you can re-paint it and give it a whirl.

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TM-

I would appreciate that. To tell you the truth, I don't know why I am so hung up on this hunting thing either. But, there has to be something unique about those type of baits. They have to have their own special wobble and that might really be the key and not so much that the bait darts to one side or the other that makes fish attracted to them. Then again, I could be all wet, but it certainly is a challenge to figure out. :wink:

Man, you must have one heck of a collection of baits. B)

Dave

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jamie,

Personally I would refinish the lure. You could probably get 15 - 20 bucks for it on ebay. But since you have those blemishes then you may not. I have seen some pretty beat up ones go for that much though. But I would refinish it and fish it. How much do you want to referbish the lure? Just so it could fish or completely to make it pretty again too?

Skeeter

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Jamie,

I don't really mess with the lures but jrfan8 can make the lure new again for 9 bucks I think. Check out his site under what we do http://www.hustlerlures.com. I have a few of his lures I got from a friend, very nice!! I am going to be sending a handfull of baits over to him to get re-finised soon aswell. And by the way you did real good getting a all brass ofr 2 bucks usally even in horrible condition they can reach 15+

Taylor

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below are a few pics of the lure i bought on ebay:

Skeeter: I'm thinking that I would like to completely refinish this lure and get it close to it's original paint job. I guess that would mean that I woud need to strip it down to the bare wood?? I'm thinking that I would first take pics of the lure for reference and then try to copy the paint. what would you suggest?

Tm: thanks again for the advice. I think it would be challenging to refinish this lure myself. Bring a beat up lure back to life is truly a satisfying experience. here's one I refinished. found it on a small lake. most of the paint was completely off except for two spots which I used as a reference to get it close to it's original color scheme.

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Hi guys,

Since we are on the subject of the hunting action, let me tell you why I am trying to make my own flat crankbaits. 2 years ago I purchased 3 Dbait crankbaits from Mr. Dee's, this was in the winter time so he sent a note with the baits saying that these bait were not tuned do to ice on the water. When spring arrived I tuned the baits and one of the bait had an unbelievable hunting action, it would run straight then swing left or right maybe 6 inches (staying vertical the whole time), it might stay there for 1 to 5 seconds then swing to center then to the other side, it was very random. (I beleive that I would not of got this one bait if he would of tuned them). I'm telling you the fish tore this bait up. I repaired this bait so many times now there is nothing left to repair so I disected it. I have purchased quit a few more and have never had another one do it this much (move this far side to side). So this is why I am so interested in the topcoat finish that he uses, I think that the fact that his topcoat is very thin and light might be an advantage in this action. Then again I might be are wrong.

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MP, the top coat has nothing to do with that hunting action. In my limited experience that hunting action is a fluke. I have a D bait copy made out of cedar ( my very first bait ) and it tracks like yours and caught a lot of fish. But I haven't been able to get another bait to track like that one. I gave up on the hunting action and try to get my baits to run stright back to the rod tip. After searching TU on hunting action, from the guru's posts

I gather they don't want their baits moving off of center.

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Jamie,

Bad news, the baits I am talking about are the square lips. It would be a complete waste of time to re-finish the pictured lure if you are planing on fishing it unless you replace the lip. The lips on these older DB's are all very brittle and will break almost imediatley when the hit the bottom when cranking, belive me I ruined several lures fishing them. I would strongly suggest replacing the lip with lexan of some other strong material because the lip on there is doomed to a quick death. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's best to hear this before you invest lots of time into the bait.

Also some of you guys's will be happy to know I found some great hunting crankbaits, noe the bad news I have no clue what brand they are or who made them. I looked through all of my wood cranks last night and took some of them with me fishing today. The 4 pictured turned out to be the jack pot! These little baits hunt very well the deep diver may throw off as much as 6'' to each side and the shallow get about 2'' mabey 3'' the only down side to these baits is they are too small to cast on a bait caster :( I got them off of ebay in a lot of tackle and had not used them untill today I belive they are hand made, very nice job and thanks to whoever made them :wink: Does anyone know what kind these are I would be interested in buying some larger ones. They are made of balsa and have brass wire hand shaped lips and foiled bodies.

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