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Posted 16 August 2004 - 12:14 PM
I picked a couple B's up while at Bass Pro. Interesting lure!! I will know a little more after I throw them and then disect one. I don't quite understand why they have "2 wobble settings", it goes against my theory of it is either right or wrong.
No split ring : Do you need to add a split ring, tie direct or use a snap with the Balsa B's?
Posted 17 August 2004 - 10:29 AM
The Bagleys with wobble settings were someones idea who had no idea what they were doing to a great classic bait! That lure is made in a foreign country, and from what I have seen in no way captures what Bagleys BB's are all about. Was just another step in destroying all that was special about the original BB's.
Now if you look at the above mentioned "new" Bagley site, they have re-introduced the BB series with more true original specs including brass harness, which I am sure is not thru wire, as it never had been..
If you want a true representation of what made Bagleys famous, go on ebay and buy a few BB's. They must be the ones noting brass hangers and square lip, they can be pricey tho.
Posted 17 August 2004 - 03:51 PM
Have any of you gotten your hands on these new "Original" Bagleys yet? They have the brass ties and the DB's have the lead button in the lip. I haven't seen them in tackle shops yet. Looks like they are going to be in the $10 range. I guess that's worth it if they are really as good as the oldies. Not many colors to choose from.
The deep diving bang-O-Lures that were sold as "Salmon Snacks" were not thru-wire either. I have several "front halves" hanging in my workshop. The Kings would bite right through them.
Does anyone have autopsy photos of BB-3's, DB-3's, DB-06's, or DB-08's?
I'm making myself some BB-4's and I want to make them thru-wire with the brass wire. Where do you get this wire? Regular hardware store?
Great thread, guys!
Posted 19 August 2004 - 08:24 PM
Does the shape of the lure have a role in making a bail hunt?
Posted 23 August 2004 - 12:36 AM
Had a guy sent me a couple of the new ones, they are NOTHING like the old ones. Yes they do have brass wire in the nose and tail but the belly hanger is still steel. And yes the DB's do have lead in the lip but they used the newer style lip and just put lead in in. All they have done is taken the same lures they have been selling for the past few year (basically junk) and added brass wire and lead to the lip.
as far as an autopsy photo the closest I have is the one on my website under "What We Do"
Posted 23 August 2004 - 02:22 AM
Trash those BB's they suck, go on ebay and look for some older ones. I like the older BB's best (brass hangers) some of the newer ones are ok but 5 out of 10 have the lips in crooked and won't swim right The newest BB's with the 2 line ties I have found to be the worst, the action is completley different and they should'nt even be called bagleys.
Are you using the lead in lips for fishing? I have found while the lures are very nice the lips are too brittle for me and break very esially, in the rock bottoms we have around here (which is mainly what I fish). After I had a db2 in the color #070 on your site break and latter find out how valuble it was I hung all mine up and have been selling most of them and keeping only the ones I really like.
Here are some bagley's I have retired lots of DB's lead lips DKB's lead lips SMall Frys lead lips looking to trade for square lips newer older no double ties also the orginal square liped killer b's since I still fish all of these lures they seem to be very good in structure. I am looking foward to having jrfan8 paint some BB's for me. (If anyone would like to trade any bagleys give me a PM )
Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:38 AM
Since Bagley has been sold several times then I guess that there are different qualities of these baits. The lead in the lip is to help the lure maintain the proper posture while the lure is on the bottom. This posture can be obtained several different ways. The double line ties are to change the action of the bait by changing the tow point. Other than finding one that is made just right (straight body, lip etc.) which people seem to brag about when they find one that is made right, I am beginning to see the value of collecting these things. I don't see why folks don't make their own. The big thing for the collectors over the past couple of years has been the brass wire thing. Amatuers believe the brass wire is what makes the baits possibley hunt. Therefore they throw tons of money away on Ebay hoping to buy a bait that hunts. They are advertised on Ebay a full brass harnesses or just brass wire harnesses. Many believed that there was a wire harness in the bait. I myself thought that the older ones had a wire harness from nose to tail. But after what was posted on here about which Bagley baits had a true wire harness on them I felt like a fool. So what would be the difference between these "collector" pieces and on that you would make yourself and just "screw" your wire in the nose and the tail? If you take your time you will probably make a better bait by far!! There are baitmakers that can take these lures and make them perform the way they should. Some buyers get lucky and buy a good one off of the shelf. I make mine with a full two point brass wire harness. The bodies and lips are straight, the clearcoat is superior and some of them really do hunt. I think I will put them on ebay and sell them for $80.00 plus.
Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:49 AM
You guy's may be surprised to know I have several old norman shallow little N's that hunt very well. They are partially the reason I am finally getting into custom painting.
Posted 23 August 2004 - 11:22 AM
Right on Skeeter!
I have in the neighborhood of 250 Bagley lures, all but a couple made before the company was sold the first time. I have very few of the brass wire models, simply because most didn't physically survive. These are for sure the least durable lures Bagley ever produced. Eventually Bagley went to hardwood inserts or dowels, glued into balsa and screw-eyes screwed into the dowels. For my money, these were the highest quality DB-III's and Deep Killer B's ever produced, and I caught a ton of fish on them. "Brass wire harness" is very misleading; I wasn't by myself in having a big bass pull hooks out of those early lures. Every change in the lures over the years that it was Jim Bagley's company, was done in the interest of durability.
Now, that being said, those lures still had to be made to a marketable price point. I know a lot of TU guys who make better lures than Bagley or Lee Sisson or etc., simply because we do not have to compromise on time, hardware, and lure materials, not to mention all of the knowledge shared thru TU. Point being, if you want the best wooden crank, the knowledge base is here, and the lures and luremakers are here, who can make, paint, and sell lures better than anything built by anyone producing lures for the mass-market.
For me personally, I think "hunting" on a straight retrieve is over-rated. It is much more important to me how the lure reacts upon hitting cover and structure.
Posted 23 August 2004 - 12:08 PM
This is an excellent thread. I have learned a ton. Even though you all say the one's with 2 wobble settings are junk, as far as design, are they the same as the old ones? Body and Lip?
Posted 23 August 2004 - 12:19 PM
Here is a pic of some BB's I like mostly #1'S AND #2'S the top one is the older style brass hardware second is the improved wedge lip only made one year, next is a B-Flat I higly reccomend this bait next is a newer BB in a tiger color this is the last quality model I belive no rattle for more boyancy so it backs up quicker in snags one line tie. Next we have the disappointment the duel line tie it has a rattle is less boyant the action is not the same. I would say if you start off fishing these baits you won't be disoppointed but may not get the best of bagleys I would suggest looking on ebay for some older modles.
I was also shocked how much people care about hunting it never seemed like that much of a deal breaker untill I read this post I would rather have a bait that is more snag resistant, sucks loosing cranks
Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:50 PM
Excellent point about the wedge lip. Do you know what year the lure is. You have some fine looking lures. Many seem to be in real good shape.
Yes, the lure bodies were basically the same as far as size is concerned. I have noticed that the ones made in the Dominican Republic have a more of a pointed tail. The bodies are pretty crooked also. The rattles that are used in these baits are an aspirin shaped piece in a little square box. It is installed slightly behind the belly weight up toward the middle of the bait. I really haven't figured out how it was installed yet. But it was a real neat job. I see no evidence of glue, putty, or cutting of any kind to get it in there. I know I am missing something, but I have a better eye than most. This was one slick job.
The line tie will change the action. Just like changing the position of the line tie in a lip. I really can't say much about the lure other than that. I have never fished one.
Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:05 PM
Hey Guys, I have a few Bagleys and one was in bad shape, so I operated on it to see what made it work. Skeeter the weight you mentioned was added by drilling a hole part way through the side of the bait. The little round plastic box was inserted into the hole and the small asprin shaped lead weight went in next with the plastic cover on top. After this was done, a balsa plug was glued in place, sealed and painted over. If you look close from the inside, you can see the grain of the plug running a different direction than the body of the lure. Joe
Posted 23 August 2004 - 11:02 PM
Most of the bagley's I have are near mint, the wedge lip was either 70' or 71' if you can find those cheap jump on it I have seen them go on ebay from 20-80 I still fish w/ some sometimes.
Posted 24 August 2004 - 02:08 AM
That's funny, just goes to show you etc, I liked the looks of that particular lip, it looked heck-for-stout, I fished them hard, they held up well, I caught a few fish on them but I don't remeber anything big. I gradually lost confidence in them and they fell out of my widest rotation: I was glad when they changed them, and so were all of my fellow Bagley fanatic friends. I fished the BBI's and III's in productive colors and grew to believe the wedge lip, while durable, was a mistake, and it was a popular opinion in many fishing circles.
Posted 24 August 2004 - 02:19 AM
Thanks TM. I did not know what year those wedge lips were made. You are right. All of the BI, BII, and BIII's all sell for a fair amount of money, especially the ones with the brass line ties.
Posted 24 August 2004 - 04:11 PM
Please correct me if I am thinking wrong here.
If the only one to have thru wire construction was the Bango lure and my best chance of getting a store bought bait to hunt is a BI, BII or a BIII, is it safe to say that thru wire doesn't play a role in getting a bait to hunt? Could it be the brass line tie is the key?
Posted 24 August 2004 - 06:26 PM
Also, the first Bagley lures were the lightest they ever were, with their lighter lips, hardware, a little less paint and clearcoat, no dowels for hook anchors, etc. Couple this with the lead in the lip in the Deep B's, and you have a significantly different lure balance than the average crank today. I have no idea if they changed balsa density over the years, but I know Jim grew fond of the screw-eye in a hardwood spine.
I think if I wanted a crank to hunt fairly predictably I would raise the center of gravity within the lure by moving the weight up higher, or, by taking a bit of weight out of the lure. Just an opinion, you know what they say...
Posted 24 August 2004 - 07:55 PM
Bagley defiantly changed the density of the wood they used. The wood from the 60's was very light weight, in the 70s it got a little tougher and so on to today?s lures. Plus the paint that they use now is totally different than what they used to use. I personally like the old ones that the lips break out of if you whack them on the water or if a fish hits them they may take a chunk of wood. Although not as durable they are a much more reliable lure to me. And heck if I break them I can always fix them.
I had a guy send me a bunch of old BB's (probably 60s or 70s model) that were just totally destroyed. When he got them back he was amazed. I have to say that Bagley's are my specialty. Next time I rip one apart (should be soon) I will post picture for you all to see.
Believe it or not a lot of the BB4's that you guys have, have probably at one time or another was cut in half by Bagley. For what reason I do not know but a lot of them that I get to refinish have been cut right before the lure thins down for the tail and then glued back together. I don't know if maybe those are from a batch that were mis cut and made to small so they just cut them and added more length to them.
TM---- yes I do fish the ones with the lead in lip. Those old lips like I said may break easier but they make the lure run totally different than the new lips they use. Probably because the old lips are thinner and will vibrate. Heck I could be wrong on that thought.
Posted 25 August 2004 - 12:07 AM
I would have to say that it is in part to the line tie placement and the weight used in the lure. Also lip placement and angle are extremely important.