QuantumRock Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 2 part question for two separate questions. I use epoxy for toothy creatures and have always had a problem with it no matter what brand I'm using. After apreading the epoxy and placing it on my 9rpm turning machine it develops several pinholes in the epoxy finish. It's remedied by going back after before it dries. I've narrowed it down to UV clear I use beneath the Epoxy. I've always used a high gloss UV protectant spray, Krylon, and I was wondering if using a matte spray would allow the epoxy to stick better? 2nd question. I recently ran into a problem with my Garco MCU. I dipped a lures same as always but the underlying paint wrinkled badly. The lure was definitely dry, it had cured about a week before dipping. Same paint as always, same technique, only thing that was different was the temperature. I dipped it in an air conditioned room at about 65 degrees. Any thoughts, recommendations, solutions, or advice would greatly be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I have no idea about the gloss vs matte question, but, in regards to Garco wrinkling your paint, you need to be sure the solvent in Garco doesn't react with the paints you use. No matter how long you dry and cure a paint job, if the top coat contains a solvent for the paint it will wrinkle, to some extent. The best way I've found to tell if a top coat "plays nice" is to make a test piece, using your typical paint scheme, and then top coating it, to see if there are any problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 The question I have is why the "UV Clear" under the epoxy? Is it solvent based? If so, it might be what is causing the pin holes in the epoxy and also might be why your MCU wrinkled. BTW, any UV blocking product has to be on top of a coating you are trying to protect. MCU is solvent based and the solvent is pretty reactive with some other solvent based coatings. It will also wrinkle acrylic paint if left in a liquid state too long in any place on the lure. That's why it is better to coat the lure and then simply hang it up to drip dry - that lets excess MCU drip off the tail instead of collecting in a spot underneath its drying skin and wrinkling the paint. For me, epoxy has always been pretty foolproof compared to other coatings as long as it is measured and mixed properly and I have brushed it on the lure in a thick enough coat without missing any spots. Pin holes and fisheyes can happen if the epoxy is applied over a spot of oil or wax to which it cannot adhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumRock Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 The UV clear goes under the epoxy to protect the "fugitive" candy color and fluorescent paints I use. As far as the MCU reacting with the paints I use, I have dipped lures in this MCU before with no problems. Just trying to figure out why it happened this time because I can't spend the amount of time I do painting a lure then have it go bad when I dip it with no rhyme or reason why it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 QR - the second question about the MCU applied in an air conditioned room is interesting. Not so much a temperature thing as a moisture problem. I could speculate about low air humidity and high moisture content of the lure paint brought into the room from a more humid atmosphere. The MCU needs moisture to cure, if it cannot get the moisture from the air, maybe it is getting it from the paint. It is always a good idea to use a hair dryer to drive off any moisture prior to top coating, but the obvious solution is stay out of A/C when coating. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumRock Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Your response makes perfect sense, and I never thought of it drawing moisture from the paint. I'll stay away from the AC from now, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 My a/c runs 24/7 during the summer and I've never had a problem like you described with DN S81 MCU, but then it's not being applied over any type of rattle can clear. Have you tried warming the bait up with a hair dryer/heat gun before dipping into the Garco? It definitely won't hurt anything and you might find you get a thinner, more even coat by warming it up. Ben 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I don't think things happen with no rhyme or reason and when MCU is involved, in my experience wrinkling is caused by one of two things. Either it is reacting with a coating underneath it or it is forming a skin on top but allowing wet MCU to pool somewhere underneath the skin. I've dipped lures in Dick Nite MCU in all temperatures and relative humidities without a problem, but I can't speak about Garco. I've also never used the specific paints you mention. If they contain any kind of solvent, and some acrylics that are formulated for auto paint do, that may be the problem. If MCU pools anywhere under its drying skin, that will wrinkle just about any kind of acrylic paint. I had that problem when first using MCU because I was coating the baits and putting them on a lure turner to level out and dry. It was not apparent that the MCU was pooling under its skin, but that's what was happening. When I stopped using the lure turner and just hung them up to drip dry so any excess MCU dripped off the tail, the problem disappeared and never returned. The only thing to do in this case is eliminate the possible causes one by one until you get a successful finish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 You use to be able to buy "fish eye eliminator" at auto paint shops to protect against pin holes and fish eye. But any coats of finish that goes on after it is used must also contain the eliminator. Although temp and moisture may have effected the wrinkling of the mcu I believe it was another problem. That problem was the length of time before the mcu dried. Test your paint for reaction by submerging it in mcu and making it stay wet for an extended length of time. If it wrinkles then you will know that you need to dry the mcu faster. Air conditioning probably caused the mcu to take longer to dry which gave it more time to react with the paint. Just my $.02. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Musky Glenn - that is a solid argument that makes a lot of sense - reduced humidity would mean extended cure times. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I find that a quick dip is needed with AC1315, or I get wrinkling, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumRock Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You know, I remember now that I did something different with this lure than the previous ones. I've read about quick dipping and slow dipping and I had always just dipped my lures willy nilly with no regard as to the time spent submerged. But this one I made a conscious effort to keep it submerged maybe 2 or 3 seconds longer. Guess when it went bad my anger kicked in and I completely forgot I had done that until a fellow member mentioned doing it that way wrinkles his paint. It was probably also combined with the low humidity and I cocktail for failure. I appreciate the responses, I Love this forum and all its members. You guys are awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 QR - it was a very good fault to report. It makes us all think that little bit harder about what we are doing with these substances. It also demonstrates that we are often riding a fine line between success and failure without realizing it. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
