nedyarb Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Where would I find someone to make me one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Custom made press punch and die. Local machine shop or similar should be able to whip one up for you with ease. With about every one's grandmother now having equipment to do this sort of stuff not too difficult finding someone that can do that work. Edited February 11, 2016 by Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawjacker Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I see someone has been looking through my pics.............LMAO......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 So do you know where I can get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawjacker Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I made that one myself........I bought an end mill and a metal lathe so I could do everything....In House.......that one took a couple of dys working on it in spare time after work......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Did you use a tool grade steel like O1 or W2 and quench harden it? Or maybe case harden something else? I've case hardened 1018 and quenched O1 before. I keep meaning to play with some W2 at some point, but there are to many projects for the time in one life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks Jawjacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawjacker Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 That one is D2 Tool steel.......hardened to 60 on a Rockwell scale.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 i guess punching your own is better then machining them....thanks for the share...you can flame harden with motor oil ,in a coffee can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Flame harden? Sounds like magic juju. LOL. I just read up on D2 this morning. Seems to be a bit finicky for heat treating and tempering, but easily doable if you have a good furnace. Huge range of potential hardness though seems to be the positive trade. That and decent dimensional stability when worked. Thank you for mentioning the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 here we go again bob, most people on here I'm thinking work out of there garages or sheds....im thinking most cant afford heat treatment and want to make there own punch cutter.(if they can).....if you use reg.motor oil and can heat your punch with a heat source and get it cherry red but not to over heat it....grab it with pliers and drop it in a coffee can(quench) of motor oil..the carbon in the oil will harden the punch ..( carb harden) now if you over heat it and get it to hot it will crack the part....motor oil can be used oil but not synthetic oil...that has no carbon in it....the oil will flash and start on fire sometimes..just put a rag over the topof the can and that will put it out...make sure your part is cherry red hot and just drop it in.......BOB IT WORKS....you can use 4140 ,o1,or any steel that will carb harden.d2 m2 m4 will most likely crack if it gets to hot ..the hardening is not needed but your punch and die will last longer if you heat treat them...2 qts. or more is all that's needed....just enough to get your part covered is what your looking for but. if you have more oil the better..do a couple oil changes on the car and truck then use that oil...I have a steel 5 gal paint can in the shop..and that's what we use.....if anyone wants to make there own punch and die and your not sure of how to do this pm me.your phone number.and ill call you..its not hard to do and will work for what your doing....a propane torch will work that used to solder copper pipe....just will take a little pit to heat your punch.....scrap steel from the scrap yard will work to most yards have there steel marked look for o1 40rc.or better will be just fine or just take your steel file and rub a corner if it digs in your part is soft if it slides across your more then hard..most mill bastard files are over 60 rc. harden...THERES NO JUJU BOB. JUST SOME BACK YARD MECHANICS I PICKED UP YEARS AGO....please pm me if needed I'm willing to help anyone anytime...boy bob id like to walk into your shop....man we would have some fun......peace bro..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) But that is not FLAME hardening. O1 while not as versatile as D2 can be fairly easily "oil quench" hardened like W2 can be "water quench" hardened.And some alloys not normally able to be quench hardened can be hardened by a process called super quenching.Others can be case hardened with a variety case hardening formulas.None of them are normally called flame hardening. FY: There is a surface hardening process that is called flame hardening ( I just looked it up ), but it is not what you described. What you described is quenching. Edited February 16, 2016 by Bob La Londe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 For anybody interested in knowing, quenching does work for hardening many steel alloys. Info on quench hardening is readily available.The problem for the most part is that its usually near full hardness that way, and various heating processes can cause it to be inconsistent hardness throughout the work piece. For something like a polycarbonate punch it probably doesn't matter too much, but it can be an issue on parts used for other purposes. Full hard steel alloy can chip, break, or even shatter in some uses. Tempering is one of the most common processes of reducing the hardness and making the part more likely to take some strains without breaking. In general you heat it to a soak temperature, and then slowly cool the part. Most common alloys have data readily available. An old school method is to pack the part in ash so it cools slowly. And... ... I am hack working out of my garage. LOL. Ok, my garage is a few thousand sq ft and its not connected directly to the house, but still I think it qualifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) We used a powdered carbon in school metalwork class. More time held at the temperature would mean more carbon absorption. BOB - no, it doesn't, but we'll let you play anyway. Dave Edited February 16, 2016 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Is that like case hardening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 How about if I sometimes go to work in the middle of the night by putting on my slippers and walking out the back door in my bath robe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Mark - case hardening is what I remember it being called. Bob - yes, slippers count for those Eureka moments, when you rush to the cave to try something out. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Being a CWI in welding and having a tad bit of understanding about metals. Bob is right, it all depends on the make up of the metal. Quenching can make the metal brittle. It can take away it's ductility. My suggestion is to let the pro's do it for you. Buy the right metals at the beginning. You can find excellent metals at scrape yards at a nice price. Bob I would say you have been around a machine shop or you have worked with metals a time or two. Take Care, Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I remember, way back in the stone age, I took metal shop and I made a cold chisel. After I beveled the tip, the shop teacher and I heated it in the forge to red hot, then dipped in the water bucket quickly. We pulled it back out, and watched as the color of the steel on the tip changed as it cooled. When it reached a straw color, we put the chisel back in the quenching bucket again, and let it cool all the way. I gave that chisel to my father, and he used it for years, so I guess we did it right, but I sure didn't know exactly what we were doing at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Sorry, I never meant to imply that hardening was beyond the scope of the HSM (home shop machinist) or that I was an expert. I've done some hardening, and some types of hardening can be done by people that don't have access to timed furnaces or other advanced methods. Blacksmith's have been working metal in charcoal forges for a very long time to make a kind of carbon steel. Swordsmith's mastered Damascus steel a very long time ago. O1 (general purpose tool steel) and W2 (usually called drill rod) are some of the more predictable metals used in the small shop and home shop for making hard tools. I've seen videos of guys who made their own low use thread mills and gear hobs out of W2. For those who are interested there is a huge community of home shop knife makers, and dozens of great forums where various steels and various methods are discussed. Hobbyist in that field range from the guy who takes a grinder to a file to guys who have their own heat treating furnaces in their garage right next to the CNC mill they use to cut their own parts. They are a huge resource for methods of working steel. I just wanted anybody who tried it to take some time and read up on it, and not just assume it was as simple as it was made to sound. Its not hard for the person who takes the time to learn. I mean that its not hard if you learn how. It still takes time and work. I also wanted anybody doing research on it to start with the right terms. Or atleast the ones that helped me find the information I needed when I was researching steel hardening. Some of the good low tech DIY methods are best learned first hand with the help of somebody who has done it. Its pretty hard to know what "straw colored" is until somebody shows you. That's really why shops of yore had apprentices. It wasn't just a "putting in time" thing for controlling labor. I had never even heard of D2 before the OP mentioned it. I read up on it, and it seemed pretty finicky from what I read which is why I commented on it. There are some very specific recipes available for D2 for tempering, but interestingly for hardening as well. What got my attention is that it can be hardened to quite a large range of hardnesses, but from what I found it needs to be tempered properly. FYI: For my last hard tool I used 1018. A steel not commonly considered to be hardenable by quenching. I did read up on super quenching, but decided the chemicals were just to caustic to work with for a single low usage tool. Instead I case hardened all the cutting edges with Cherry Red and then hand polished them with a diamond file and diamond hone. It did its one single job, and I tossed it on my pile of single use gunsmith tools that I'll probably never use again. LOL. I have some 01 on the shelf, but I didn't want to waste it on a single use tool. I think the biggest key to doing steel hardening is to: A. do it. B. have a method of testing it. There are metal hardness test tools out there, but for simple home shop work a spring punch can give you some idea how hard a piece is. It doesn't tell you if that's its annealed state or its hardened state, but it can tell you if you succeeded in hardening a piece if you do a before and after test. I have left a lot out. Even of the little bit I know, but I hope I've given enough information that somebody interested can know where to start learning. I think the biggest difficulty to hardening steel is the large amount of steel in common use that is not heat treatable by normal methods and the fact that most of us can't tell what it is by looking at it. I really am JUST an HSM ... not to be confused with using HSM methods. Property of a person - HSM ( Home Shop Machinist ) Alternate - HSM ( Hack Shadetree Machinist ) LOL Method of Cutting - HSM ( High Speed Machining ) Edited February 17, 2016 by Bob La Londe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeryrob Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wanted to be able to be consistent with making my dive lips. I am not a machinist and don't have the fancy tools like a mill and things, so I went at in simply with the tools available to me. I have a computer with AutoCAD, a band saw and a belt sander. I design my lips in AutoCAD and print them out, glue them on the lexan or plexi and cut and sand them out. Here is the full write up on it. Here is one still with the glued on template and one with the template off ready to be inserted into the lure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wanted to be able to be consistent with making my dive lips. I am not a machinist and don't have the fancy tools like a mill and things, so I went at in simply with the tools available to me. I have a computer with AutoCAD, a band saw and a belt sander. I design my lips in AutoCAD and print them out, glue them on the lexan or plexi and cut and sand them out. Here is the full write up on it. Here is one still with the glued on template and one with the template off ready to be inserted into the lure. That is very good looking work, and probably more than adequate for most crank bait hand builders. Personally I think if I was going to make a lot of them, and they weren't necessarily always going to be the same or I wanted to experiment with size and shape I'ld pick up a cheap CNC Router and learn to use it rather than making a punch which can make only one lip size and shape for the rest of its service life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishon-son Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wanted to be able to be consistent with making my dive lips. I am not a machinist and don't have the fancy tools like a mill and things, so I went at in simply with the tools available to me. I have a computer with AutoCAD, a band saw and a belt sander. I design my lips in AutoCAD and print them out, glue them on the lexan or plexi and cut and sand them out. Here is the full write up on it. Here is one still with the glued on template and one with the template off ready to be inserted into the lure. nice job you did here ..very good idea ..sometimes keeping it simple is a better and cheaper way.....this will go into the memory bank for sure....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Nice Blog Rob. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Yes, good job. I do mine exactly the same way. I design the shapes so that they suit my tools, mainly the belt sander with the disk. The only thing that I do extra, is add a centre line to the template. After shaping the profile, I scratch the faintest of lines on the end of the lip to represent the centreline. Dave Edited February 18, 2016 by Vodkaman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
