SolarEz... Am I missing something?

[joehaase]

All.. I just wanted to take a second and thank everyone who contributes to this site for helping me with ideas over the past few years. I run a Hooked on Fishing not on Drugs group here in South Jersey, with the goal of getting kids outdoors and enjoying nature. One of our most popular activities has been lure making. Following some of the threads on here. I have been able to get the kids involved in airbrushing crankbaits and trout spoons using the copic marker systems with great success. 

 

I have been using 5 min epoxies for the clear coat with varying success... some turn yellow, and some just always seem to stay tacky. Seeing a few guys on here and youtube swear by Solarez, I decided to get some to try. The biggest problem with kids making these lures, is that they can't take them home right away, and it's often weeks before we interact again. 

 

I bought a pint of Solarez dual cure polyester gloss resin and tried it on a few baits i had made up. I also purchased a UV nail curing light as advised, thinking I could easily modify this to fit over my drying wheel.

 

I ran into two problems right off the bat.. as I brushed the resin onto the lure, it started "pulling" the paint off.... leaving large brush strokes down to the primer layer of paint. It also did not cure glossy at all... it looks cloudy and has a very dull sheen to it.

 

So I'm curious if I got the wrong kind, or am doing something wrong. 

 

 

Thanks.. Joe

[mark poulson]

I don't know if there is something wrong with what you bought, but I use Solarez Dual Cure resin a lot, and like it.

I dip it, and let it hang to drip off over the dipping jar.  I do it away from both sunlight, even reflected, and LED lights, which shine in the UV spectrum, too.  Once it's stopped dripping, I wipe any excess off the tail hanger with a paper towel, and hang them in my UV nail box for three minutes.

I find it's fine with lighter colors, but I do see some blushing with darker colors.  I've been told to buff away the blush, but, so far, it hasn't been bad enough to worry about;

Call Gary Fisher at Solarez, (800) 875-3833, and tell him what your having a problem with.  He's really good to talk to, and smart about his products, too.  He'll help you sort it out.

[BobP]

Solarez is not a high gloss topcoat and if applied over a dark color, you can often see a white blush that is caused by the wax flakes in the resin that are required for it to develop a hard surface.  I use Solarez for undercoating raw wood, but think there are better looking topcoats out there.  I know Mark likes it.. but then again, he's lazy

The big problem you had with 5 minute epoxy as a topcoat is that it cures too fast to level out properly and it uses a fast hardener that tends to make the epoxy turn brown quickly.  You need to use a 30 minute epoxy for topcoating to avoid both those problems.  It's also a lot easier to brush.  It requires 45-60 min of rotation after application to prevent sags and drips, and is hard enough for light handling after 5 hours.

If your epoxy is not hardening, it's one of two things:  either you did not measure it correctly or you did not mix it thoroughly enough.  Of the two, poor mixing is probably the culprit most often.  I can see why this might happen if you were using 5 min epoxy, since it has such a short work time that you probably get in a panic to get it on the lure fast enough.

If it's important for you to get the lures ready to travel in a short time, 1-2 hours, you might consider KBS Diamond Coat moisture cured urethane finish.  You can dip it or brush it on, then hang it up to drip dry for 1-2 hrs while its solvent evaporates, at which point it is as durable as regular urethane varnish.  Over several days, it then undergoes a chemical reaction with ambient moisture that makes it much harder and more durable.  It is also a very glossy finish.  Putting the lures in a heated box would speed the drying process, if that's an issue.

 

[joehaase]

Thanks for the reply guys.

I'm thinking it's more of a problem with my technique that I need to work on. Here are a few pics.

This is the original Blue gill lure my 8 year old son air brushed earlier. The vaccuform templates make life so much easier for kids!

This is the lure finished with (2) 3 minute trips in the UV nail light. I see the "blushing" which gives the dark colors a haze. But if you notice by the tail and on the gill plate itself, you will see the white primer coat in brush strokes from when i put the product on. This can be solved by dipping the baits i would suppose.

 

The other major problem I had on this lure, is on the edges of the gill plate and nose of the lure, the epoxy never full cured, and allowed everything on the lure to be rubbed off down to the plastic of the body.

 

I think if I can get these problems worked out, I will have exactly what I need... as the kids don't care about having a super high gloss finish like we do... they just want something to bring home to show there parents and friends!

 

[BobP]

one problem might be that you are over-brushing the clearcoat, trying to put it on too thinly.  That can lift fragile acrylic latex paint off the lure and can also lead to fisheyes and other problems.  When you brush high viscosity topcoats like epoxy and Solarez, you should keep the brush loaded with finish at all times and work from a wet edge around the lure.  You never want to have a dry brush.  I put Solarez coated baits on my lure turner for a few minutes to level out before curing them.  I have a UV nail light but more often just set the lure turner out in the sunlight to cure while still turning for 15 minutes.  Even on a cloudy day, there's enough UV light to cure Solarez.  Less hassle that way.

[joehaase]

That would make perfect sense about trying to brush it on to thin and dry scraping the paint off. Since I use the Copic markers with the airbrush, they are solvent based, and do not go on nearly as thick as if I was using a regular airbrush, so that would only amplify things. I am making a box to go over my drying wheel I normaly use, and am going to line it with mirrors, with a opening on top to mount my drying light. I should be able to spin it for a few minutes to get the coating to level out before hitting it with the light.

 

 

[mark poulson]

31 minutes ago, joehaase said:

That would make perfect sense about trying to brush it on to thin and dry scraping the paint off. Since I use the Copic markers with the airbrush, they are solvent based, and do not go on nearly as thick as if I was using a regular airbrush, so that would only amplify things. I am making a box to go over my drying wheel I normaly use, and am going to line it with mirrors, with a opening on top to mount my drying light. I should be able to spin it for a few minutes to get the coating to level out before hitting it with the light.

 

 

I only use a brush with Solarez  for touchup.  It does have some kind of a 'tone solvent ( acetone, keytone?) so that's one of the reasons I dip and hang my lures.  Dipping quickly gets the entire lure coated, and hanging by the nose while dripping back into my dip jar gets me an even coat without disturbing my paint.  It is a thick enough material to have good coverage at the head even after dripping stops, and I hang them in the nail light by the nose, so the material isn't disturbed before it sets.

I would never use a drying wheel, because the finish is heavy enough to move the paint beneath it if it's rotated.

I use a 36 W fingernail polish UV light, and my lures set hard in 3 minutes.  I bought mine here:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/UV-Lamps-Nail-Dryers/67653/bn_232931/i.html

Bob's right, I am lazy and impatient, and Solarez lets me make a lure with PVC, paint it, top coat it, and fish it the same day.

 I'm more patient now that the water is 49 degrees and pure mud.  Between that and the cold nights and days, my ardor to get out and get skunked is somewhat dimmed.

Edited February 4, 2017 by mark poulson

[jwfflipper]

check this out, you will be surprised on how well this works 

[joehaase]

hahaha.. I have all the patience in the world, but it's my kids who dont! Last year I did lure making at Rutgers University summer camp... 60 kids in 3 hours.. each kid made a spinner bait and airbrushed a trout spoon.. needless to say my hands were a little cramped from the split rings and bending the wire on the spinner baits lol..

 

 

 

[mark poulson]

5 minutes ago, joehaase said:

hahaha.. I have all the patience in the world, but it's my kids who dont! Last year I did lure making at Rutgers University summer camp... 60 kids in 3 hours.. each kid made a spinner bait and airbrushed a trout spoon.. needless to say my hands were a little cramped from the split rings and bending the wire on the spinner baits lol..

 

 

 

 

Good for you!  Kids are our future, and you're doing us all a real service.

If you get a nail light box, you can cure several baits at once, and the kids can be handling their finished baits fast.

 

[joehaase]

Just now, mark poulson said:

 

Good for you!  Kids are our future, and you're doing us all a real service.

If you get a nail light box, you can cure several baits at once, and the kids can be handling their finished baits fast.

 

That is the whole goal here!!! I have zero problems waiting a few days, but this class was 3 hours drive time away... I had to find a way to have the stuff dry there where no one would touch it.. and that was the challenge. I'm going to cut the bottom off my nail light tonight and build my box out of foam and give it a try.

[mark poulson]

7 minutes ago, joehaase said:

That is the whole goal here!!! I have zero problems waiting a few days, but this class was 3 hours drive time away... I had to find a way to have the stuff dry there where no one would touch it.. and that was the challenge. I'm going to cut the bottom off my nail light tonight and build my box out of foam and give it a try.

 

Just remember to block out any sunlight and LED light, or the resin will begin to set while it's dripping, and the drips will form debris in your dipping jar.

I really think you'd be smart to call Solarez and talk to Gary (Gary Fisher at Solarez, (800) 875-3833).

He can help you make your setup work.

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by mark poulson

[old1ncal]

I have tried about every clear coat process out there.  I did use Solarez for a while, like others have said, the quick curing is very attractive.   The issue that I ran into was the cloudy, matte finish.   I was able to work around that after many hours on the TU site and a visit or 30 to Solarez site.   What I ended up doing when I used Solarez was after the Solarez hardens to lightly sand the lure with 1000 grit Wet or Dry sand paper.   Typically I wait at least 24 hours after the Solarez sets up, but you can do it earlier, just be gentle as the Solarez will continue to harden.  After the sanding, I use a dampened wool car polishing wheel in my drill press slowed down to 700 - 500 RPM and some McGuires #3 machine glaze.   Just a few drops smeared on the lure, and gently pressed into the spinning wool buffing wheel.    In less than a minute, you can polish the entire lure to an incredible high gloss that will be much more attractive than the matte finish.   If the kids are doing this step, a firm grip is required when buffing as sometimes the hook hangers and line ties will grab the wool.   To "clean" the wool, let it dry, crank up the rpm's and put a nail point into the wheel and move from the center out...where a dust mask as the grit and wax from the polish will puff out of the wool.  I still use Solarez on larger striped bass and salmon lures, on bass lures I use MCU due to the "thicker" coat i get when dipping into the Solarez.   

 

Hope this helps

[Anglinarcher]

Guys, great topic.  But, like they say, the devil is in the details.  Often it is the smallest details that give us the most problems.

First, a little physics (science).  The rule of light intensity is that it is inversely proportional to the radius squared.  Of, in laymen's terms, if the distance from the light source is 2 inches, you get a specific strength.  If you double the distance to 4 inches, you get 1/4 the strength of light.  If you go from 2 inches to 6 inches, you actually get 1/36 the amount of light.  Worse yet is that most reflectors are inefficient with UV light.  So, in short, making a light box for curing UV either requires a lot of Watts or keeping it very close to the light source.  I was working on a large box capable of doing large lures or lots of small ones when I moved a few years ago, and never finished the idea, but I can provide links to get you started.  http://www.solacure.com/365.html and http://www.tanninglamps4less.com/wo8ba.html

I have a nail curing light that works well, but I keep it very close to the lures.  Like was said, I can cure a SolarRes lure in 3 minutes and get great results, but again, even then, there are details to follow.  First, SolarRes uses a wax as was also stated, a wax that floats to the top as is cures.  If you cure for 30 seconds, then rest it for 15 or so seconds, then 30 seconds, then.....you get the idea, then you will not get the blushing on the dark colors.  It allows the wax to float to the surface and sublimate or evaporate off with the next exposure.

I have another option for you.  It is almost as fast as SolarRes, and you get a much better coat.  Alumilite has a produce called Alumi-UV.  It cures a little slower and does not use wax, a lot more glossy, a little more flexible, and a bit stronger.  It is pretty much the same as SolarRes in other details.  Larry Dahlberg uses a box, and has shown in on his show HUNT FOR BIG FISH that looks like a 4 foot box with 4 Black Light bulbs.  I believe it takes him 15 minutes to an hour, but that is pretty fast.  When I use the Alumi-UV with my nail light it takes longer then SolarRes, but still a lot faster then Epoxy or moisture cures.

As mentioned, dipping works very well, but I get great results using brushes on both products and I like the control I get.  Like mentioned, keep working the wet edge with a well loaded brush.  Keep the brush out of UV light and you can use the same one for years.  If you are working with kids, then it might not be worth using a brush because of the light touch needed.

One other thing, and I am reluctant to tell you.  Alumi-UV does not suggest it, and I am not sure about SolarRes, but Microwaves do not cure them, but will heat it a little and thin it for a little time before dipping or brushing.  This allows me to reduce the drip time or make brushing easier, but .......... as I said, Alumi-UV does not suggest it (don't know why), so you would need to test this for yourself.  Use the microwave for just a few seconds, you don't want to vaporize it, just heat it a few degrees.

I have the lure turner for Epoxy (as mentioned, fast curing epoxy will yellow over time and I found that over time it gets brittle and cracks easier in about a year) but I use the slowest epoxy cure I can find.  I also use it with Amazing Clear Cast Bar Top Coating but  both the Epoxy and Clear Cast take at least 24 hours of turning to get final cure.

For your purposes, look at the videos on YouTube and at Makelure.com that Larry and Alumilite sponsor to see how Larry does UV cure.  I think you will find that once you have the box and sufficient wattage you can get the kids' lures done and out in record time.

[mark poulson]

Someone here suggested putting the Solarez in a bowl of hot water to get it to flow more, and that works for me.

I'm still on my  second quart of the Gloss Dual Cure resin.  I have an unopened can of the newest version, and it doesn't say gloss, so I'm a little apprehensive about using it without a test.   

[buzfly]

I would be very careful with UV around kids. UV Glasses are a must for them. They are like deer and love to stare into the uv lights. Copic  is great but finding a good finish is hard.  Also heat set the paint on the plugs will help with durability and having it pull or wrinkle when a finish is applied.  

[Anglinarcher]

Not sure heat setting works on the alcohol based Copic system, but totally agree on UV light protection.  My "big box" would have been light sealed but my nail cure is not.  I know not to look at it.  LOL  They sell UV protection glasses on one of the links I gave above.  Most sun glasses have 100% UV protection as well.

[mark poulson]

Heat will make water based paints dry faster.  I don't ever get my Createx paint hot enough to cause the cross linking that makes it waterproof, like happens when you iron it on T shirts.  But my hair dryer dries it much more quickly, so there's not trapped moisture in the individual layers.

Heat will also make solvent based paints off gas their solvent faster, and speed up chemical reactions in epoxy.  Alcohol is a solvent in the Copic system, so heat should make it set faster.   I use a hair dryer to "heat set" solvent based sharpies, so they don't run when they are top coated.  I think all it's really doing is driving off all the solvent.  Letting the sharpie markings sit overnight in a 70 degree room would probably do the same thing.

Solarez has some kind of "tone" solvent in it (it cleans up with acetone), so I'm sure by heating it I am drive off some of that, too.  I stopped warming it when I noticed my dips were becoming uneven.  

And UV eye protection is really important.

[spoonpluggergino]

I have been using Alumilite alumiV for a while now and I love it, I had to buy a 4 foot dual bulb lamps and the uv high output lamps are  365 nm, reason for 4 foot lamps because of large baits I build, I also installed a 9 rpm motor to rotate bait while curing. The finish is high gloss and rock hard

Gino

[Anglinarcher]

1 hour ago, spoonpluggergino said:

I have been using Alumilite alumiV for a while now and I love it, I had to buy a 4 foot dual bulb lamps and the uv high output lamps are  365 nm, reason for 4 foot lamps because of large baits I build, I also installed a 9 rpm motor to rotate bait while curing. The finish is high gloss and rock hard

Gino

This is a link to the box design I was going to use.  I like the idea of a geared motor as well.  http://www.solacure.com/poolcue.html

I also attached some suggestions from Alumilite for UV Cure.

 

UV cure options.pdf

[joehaase]

Hey everyone thanks for all the added replies... some how I turned notifications off for this post, and am just now getting back around to it. I have tried the solarez various ways, and have gotten some of the clouding to go away by allowing the lure to rotate before hitting it with the light... however the sections of the lure that have black under then don't really seem to fully harden, and wipe right off even after 5 or 6 - 2 minute blasts of the light. I thought it may be a issue with the solvent not fully leaving the black paint, so i even allowed the lures to sit for a week before coating them.

 

I am going to try and get some allumiuv and see how that works out. .... This hobby sure does get expensive!!

[Anglinarcher]

Very strange about the black paint.  I have never had issues with any black paint and Solarez curing.  What  black paint are you using?

[Backlash85]

Wow I am new to lure making and couldn't imagine the patience with kids.. KUDOS to YOU!!! 

[Grisley]

I use alcohol markers a lot with the Copic airbrush system.  I also use a traditional airbrush with acrylic paints.

When I use the copic markers to airbrush, I do a very light coat of Krylon clear after every color change.  When I say a light coat, I mean a light dusting of clear from about 10-12" away from the lure.  This dries almost immediately and sets the alcohol ink so that you can proceed with the next color.  Some of the copic colors do not dry very quickly, but a light dusting of Krylon clear helps those colors to flash off.  If you apply the Krylon in too heavy of a coat, then the colors will run.

After I finish painting the lure, I do one more light coat of the Krylon clear, follows by a wet coat of Pledge Floor Care Finish through my traditional airbrush.  This is basically just a clear water based acrylic.  I then heat set the Pledge with a heat gun until I am certain that I have it completely dry.  This protects the paint job from the solvents in the final epoxy/clear coat.

The last step is to apply the final clear coat.  Sometimes I use Alumi-UV and sometimes I use Devon 2T 30min epoxy.  I have never had any problems with my alcohol markers running using this method.

I hope this helps.

[Chuck Young]

God bless you for working with the kids on this craft. I try to get all my nieces, nephews, and grandchildren involved. Their work goes into my Hall of Fame. I also get them involved in some native american craft. My sugestion for a kid friendly topcoat is Devcon 2 ton 30 min epoxy thinned with a few drops of denatured alcohol. The thinner epoxy has less chance of reacting with the thin paint. Apply epoxy liberally with light strokes. Put it on a lure turner. 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/31513-high-volume-cheap-lure-turner-lure-holders/