Clear Coat Question

[RPM]

Guys I know this has been asked a bunch, but I thought I would ask the question again and share some of my experiences. What is everyone's choice for your final clear coat?

I have used the following, Most all brands of 2 part epoxy's. Quite a few brands of MCU's, Solarez & Other UV Cure's, Concrete sealers, etc. I've seen benefits to some over the others and wanted to know what most of the other crank bait builders or painters were using currently. ?

Some of my findings are:

1.  MCU's - Some of the brands I have used work very well, they dry extremely hard, tuff and durable, but you have to deal with the storing & handling which can be a problem.

2.  2 Part epoxies- These have a place, but what I have found is they go on heavy, thick, and can sag if not put on a lure turner and the curing is sometimes a issue if not mixed properly and or the weather / humidity is wrong.

3. Solarez or UV Cure- This is a great product, dries very fast and seems to be a viable option, but it does come with limitations. The finish is not gin / water clear, and can have an issue curing? some UV Light do a better Job than others to say the least.

4. Automotive Clears- This is where I'm at currently, I have found several brands that work very well, but they come with issues, like some of the others. The fumes are bad, the clear has to be treated and handled carefully, but the finish is spectacular if all these are done right. I was given a Gallon of Imron clear and hardner from a friend and let me tell you this stuff is Awesome, but you have to have a very good ventilated area, respirator and spray booth to use it. I take my stuff to his shop and spray all of them in one trip.

I have not used Propionate? so I cannot speak about it, and there are a few other clear coats I have not used so I wont go into detail about those. But here is my question, I'm building Custom wood / balsa crank baits now and I usually build them in lots of 20-50 at a time for the purpose of being as efficient as possible, then I finish, and clear them all at once, so my question is what is the best clear coat for this situation? I would prefer to dip them, and let them hang.

I'm leaning toward the MCU, But I know the guys here on TU, Have been at this longer and may have found something they like better so I thought I would ask, and maybe it will help another builder / painter along the way.

Than you in advance, as I always enjoy the knowledge shared here on Tackle Underground.

Thanks Rich 

[BobP]

If you are doing large batches and want to dip, I think it's MCU hands down.  Specifically, I'd choose KBS Diamond Coat because it apparently is more resistant to "going off" in the container and can be thinned if/when it begins to thicken.

[osutodd]

I'm using a concrete sealer, but it's a brand that's no longer available. Wouldn't surprise me if it's still for sale under a different brand name. I like it because I can dip baits and hang them.

The one downside to it is that it seems to take a couple of weeks to cure fully. It's dry to the touch overnight, but if you leave two fresh baits touching in the box, they'll stick together a bit.

I haven't tried any of the MCUs but will when I run out of the current stuff.

[RPM]

Bob, what is the down fall to Propionate ? I'm intrigued by it, but have not used it.

Also I'm curious about storing the MCU, I was reading about keeping it in a container that has a vacuum system or lid that you connect a hand held pump and pull a vacuum after each use? seems interesting, and I 'd like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks Rich 

[BobP]

Propionate is sort of "old school".  It takes 5-8 dips in a very thin solution with acetone to form a decent coating thickness.  Also, it can turn out cloudy if the humidity is high.  I've used it for undercoating balsa, but not for topcoating.  It's also hard to find a source for it.  Bottom line for me, it works OK but there are alternatives that work just as well, are less hassle, and easier to find.

I don't dip in MCU because of the storage issues.  I decant Dick Nite MCU it out of the original can via a screw tap into a foil covered jar lid and brush it on in a quick "flood coat", then hang the lures up to drip dry just as you would if you had dipped them.  But I don't make more than 6 lures at a time and I'm using Dick Nite  which is pretty sensitive to storage problems.  A quart lasts me at least a year given my hobby rate of production.  Several TU guys use KBS instead and report that it is less sensitive to hardening.  My gut feeling is that if you are building baits in large batches, you might use up a quart of KBS before you have storage problems, and you can thin it with solvent (can't remember which solvent) if it does begin to thicken.  And if it comes with less or different solvent, it might also be less prone to bubble after application over acrylic paint if it sits on the surface in liquid form too long before flashing off its solvent.

I've tried lots of undercoats and topcoats.  I think undercoats are important to balsa baits to strengthen the soft wood.  I've found UV cured polyester works very well and is quick to use.  I use Solarez Dual Cure clear gloss resin for undercoating but not for topcoating (I don't like the white waxy blush for topcoating).  I also understand that Alumilite is now selling a version but haven't tried it yet.  Whatever regimen you choose, I recommend doing a test batch to iron out any wrinkles before you jump into a large batch of lures.

[RPM]

Thanks Bob,

I agree and appreciate your input. Sounds like MCU is the way to go and I'm even thinking about using your method of tapping the can and brushing it on. I've never really liked the idea of dipping the MCU and exposing the whole can / product to oxygen, moisture.

Thanks again I appreciate it.

Rich

[BobP]

Several guys dip in KBS MCU and report no problems.  They thin it with a solvent if it starts to thicken.  I've used several MCU' s but not KBS.  I like Dick Nite's performance but it is sensitive and I never had a quart that didn't go off on me no matter what storage method I tried until I used the tap the can method.  Quickly flood coating a lure with a brush takes only a few seconds and it's no more wasteful than dipping, so I'm happy with that.  Of course the storage problems with MCU are largely dependent on how long it takes you to use up the amount you have on hand.  I just build the occasional small batch of baits, so a quart would ideally last more than a year.

[barrybait]

I am making some balsa baits and I only have been using D2T and Solarez and Thin Super Glue.  If I don't get a layer of Solarez in there somewhere, I just can't seem to get them tough enough.   If I use Super Glue, then D2t, paint, and D2t they just don't hold up to the hooks even after multiple layers of D2T.  It's like you can put a hook right through it.  I top coat plastic squarebills with D2T and they are just bullet proof.  If I use Solarez first then paint and D2T seems pretty tough but the Solarez always seems to get some lumpy to it I need to sand.  So..currrently I am going with Super Glue, D2T all hardware and lip, D2T bait, paint, Solarez top and I am dealing with the Solarez top coat best I can.

My latest is that I should probably order a mid grade balsa if I need them tougher.

[BobP]

Yes, the first batch of balsa I ever bought was "competition balsa".  I found out that meant very light 6 lb  balsa intended for model airplanes.  But I had a bunch so built with it until it was gone.  Made very lively baits but the wood was pretty fragile and required lots of surface reinforcement.  Now I use mid density balsa, which is twice as dense at around 12 lbs/cu ft.  I just can't bear to use Solarez as a topcoat due to the white blush.  But I undercoat with it.  I use MCU or D2T for topcoating.  To me, MCU looks more refined, glossier, and is tough as nails.  But it is thinner and so will still wear  through via hook rash eventually.   There is no such thing as a damage proof balsa crankbait.  In my experience, if you try to make one you inevitably begin to compromise buoyancy and performance.  So you have to strike a balance.  Fortunately you can build more!

[mark poulson]

On 5/10/2017 at 7:04 AM, barrybait said:

I am making some balsa baits and I only have been using D2T and Solarez and Thin Super Glue.  If I don't get a layer of Solarez in there somewhere, I just can't seem to get them tough enough.   If I use Super Glue, then D2t, paint, and D2t they just don't hold up to the hooks even after multiple layers of D2T.  It's like you can put a hook right through it.  I top coat plastic squarebills with D2T and they are just bullet proof.  If I use Solarez first then paint and D2T seems pretty tough but the Solarez always seems to get some lumpy to it I need to sand.  So..currrently I am going with Super Glue, D2T all hardware and lip, D2T bait, paint, Solarez top and I am dealing with the Solarez top coat best I can.

My latest is that I should probably order a mid grade balsa if I need them tougher.

I found that my Solarez got thicker after a while, and went on too thick when I dipped it, so I added some acetone to it to make it thinner again.  That helped.

Someone here suggested warming it to make it thinner, and that helped, too. 

Just be sure you don't get even indirect sunlight or LED light onto the Solarez while it's hanging, or it will skin up and get lumpy while it's dripping off,  even before you put it in a UV light source to cure.

[barrybait]

Mark, I haven't tried adding acetone to the solarez but it sure sounds like it would be helpful.

Bob,  I tried sealing with solarez but I wasn't comfortable with it because I use D2T to glue the bill in and the hook hangars in so it seems like I should continue with the D2T.  What do you glue your bill/hardware in with and how much do you think we may be able to do multiple layers of different product.  I haven't really seen the two disagree with each other.

[BobP]

I use epoxy for all hardware regardless of what other finish products I use.  I glue in lips after painting and before topcoating.  I haven't found anything that reacts badly with either epoxy or Solarez.  I think once they're cured both are pretty non-reactive.  I never use Solarez as a glue.  It uses wax that rises to its surface in order to make the surface hard and slick, so I don't think it has any adhesive qualities if that's what you are asking.  I use Rod Bond Paste epoxy 99% of the time to mount all hardware.  I like it because it fills any gaps and will not run, plus it's long work time lets me work on a batch of baits at a leisurely pace.

Edited May 13, 2017 by BobP

[MSUShoe]

Newbie here on this forum so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge/experience as I am reaching out to those that have that knowledge and experience...

I'm trying to get a grasp here on what product would be best for the type of lure I am making... so far, I am fairly happy with D2T for crankbaits but it does smear after hardening and doesn't seem to hold it's luster... happy to try other products.

However, I tried it on some Walleye Spoons and crawler harness blades I am making and it seems much too thick and heavy.  So I read this subforum and there are several options...  the Dick Nite products seem to be the most used but I might make 50 or so cranks plus another 50 or blades/spoons a season.  Not trying resale at this point... need to master the craft a little better and get the right products in line.  So I worry about the product longevity (especially at $20 for a small container (I included the shipping costs)).

I hope I contributed to furthering the discussion and didn't hi-jack the thread from RPM.  I'd be happy to move to a new thread if that's the case.

 

[BobP]

Yes, MCU seems pretty expensive even with the discount provided to TU'ers by Dick Nite.  I haven't done the math but I think the price is competitive with epoxies like Devcon Two Ton when you take into account that the MCU is a much thinner coating and you get more baits out of whatever volume of finish you buy.  Remember that Dick Nite is custom formulated for application on metal lures, specifically the spoons that are Dick Nite's main business.  You found the same thing I did, that epoxy really isn't a good topcoat for metal lures since it is too thick and heavy, plus it tends to easily wear off quickly from any sharp edge.  It also may yellow over time.  IMO, MCU is definitely the best product to use on metal lures.  I also use it on plastic lures with no problems.  If you use the "tap the can" storage method, that avoids the problem of MCU going off in the container.