squigster

Laminate Question

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Hi Guys,

I got a question. I started using my dual injector from Ultramolds and I am getting a swirl instead of a laminate on my swimbaits. I am running the pots around 318 / 320 F. Do you think the plastic is too hot and is mixing?  Its just my guess but cant figure out what else it could be. Any help would be appreciated. 

IMG_3874 (1).jpg

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Heat is to high try lowering it to 300-310. Should shoot just fine at those temps. 

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I run mine on about 297 F after heating my plastic to 350 F i let it cool down to the 297 then start shooting. I also clean my injector after each batch . The first few batches i just heated injector and pulled plastic in to clear it out but started having problems with it not being equal so i started cleaning it up after each batch and have not had any problems since. Blow air thru the valves with them open will also clean out the old plastic in the unit. Just turn it on when it get up to about 175 F twist the valves open with a couple wooden dowels  then blow back thru the valves and it will blow a worm of plastic into the pot that way it won't bleed the old color into the new batch. Cub48

 

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12 hours ago, squigster said:

Hi Guys,

I got a question. I started using my dual injector from Ultramolds and I am getting a swirl instead of a laminate on my swimbaits. I am running the pots around 318 / 320 F. Do you think the plastic is too hot and is mixing?  Its just my guess but cant figure out what else it could be. Any help would be appreciated. 

IMG_3874 (1).jpg

 

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Was thinking the same thing.  Maybe you didn't get the color you want, but that's a cool color.  You might be on to something here! 

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Temps won't cause that. I've never shot laminates under 320 and mine are perfect. It looks like you have air drawing into one side of the injector causing that side to shoot "intermittent" so to speak, allowing the other color to intrude the voids.

Could be air coming in at the valve, could also be pulling air from behind the valve. I'd contact Rupert and tell them what's happening.

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But don't fix it until you send a couple dozen to Driftwood, Alsworms, Mark Poulson, and me if you have any left.  ;)

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34 minutes ago, Anglinarcher said:

But don't fix it until you send a couple dozen to Driftwood, Alsworms, Mark Poulson, and me if you have any left.  ;)

WORD!  lol

 

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This is 100% a temp issue. If the colours aren't shooting with the same viscosity they will not laminate correctly. It is not necessarily that they are too hot, its that one is thinner than the other at the temps you are shooting. I shoot a LOT of laminates at 320-330 perfectly but I do have those colours that are stubborn. 

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I dropped the temp to 310 which is only 10 degrees lower and pushed slower and it helped but still not resolving it but a little better. 

Attached is the pic

swimabaits.jpg

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13 hours ago, mark poulson said:

Those will get bit!

Whose mold is that?

Basstackle Molds. Theyre about $350 each for 5 cavity

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53 minutes ago, squigster said:

Basstackle Molds. Theyre about $350 each for 5 cavity

Thanks.  Those baits look great, but it's too rich for my blood.

And, just for the record, I like the first batch better.  Nothing in life is perfect.

Edited by mark poulson
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This is a temp issue. And having the temps high and close is causing this problem. This mold he is shooting has a gate that will spray the plastic if it is to thin. Then you get the crossover at the tail. I have delt with these molds for years and if they are shot over 310 they will do that. I shoot mine at about 310 but I am sure two temp gauges are not the same. Lower the temps another 10 deg and try it again. You will find the right temp. One other question is your injector one of the 50-50 or is the ratio something else? 

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11 hours ago, squigster said:

I dropped the temp to 310 which is only 10 degrees lower and pushed slower and it helped but still not resolving it but a little better. 

Attached is the pic

swimabaits.jpg

Mine was doing this when I first got the SS. It was an air pocket issue. Tightened the brass collar on the valve. No more air sucking in.

You could have a completely different problem. That's why I suggested you contact Rupert.

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Also i had a problem once and i was pulling my plastic into the injector too fast and it was causing  air to pull into one side so i slowed my pull down and made sure i had the oring sealed good at injector to valve. Also be careful not to move the injector when shooting . Go ahead drop 10 f more i would take a gloved hand or wrap my injector, push in and  pull out slow if u don't have your machine bolted to a table it needs to be. So u can hold pressure on injector, the locking tabs help but if u have them tight enough to seal they are hard to turn and has a wear problem on injector .I also had to file mine a little to keep it from rubbing the tubes. This is where melting the scrap down helps until u get everything working correct so u not wasting as much don't matter what color they are as long as they are light and dark.  Might even come up with a new color. LOL Also clean injector if u have not, plastic gets around seal and can cause a problem with air also. Cub48

 

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On 6/19/2017 at 0:52 AM, Frank said:

This is a temp issue. And having the temps high and close is causing this problem. This mold he is shooting has a gate that will spray the plastic if it is to thin. Then you get the crossover at the tail. I have delt with these molds for years and if they are shot over 310 they will do that. I shoot mine at about 310 but I am sure two temp gauges are not the same. Lower the temps another 10 deg and try it again. You will find the right temp. One other question is your injector one of the 50-50 or is the ratio something else? 

Hi Frank,

I am using the 50/50 and the 1:3 version and the 1:3 version injector is the one that is throwing fits. I realized that even though I use the same mfg their different grades of plastic do not shoot correctly at the same temp. I had to go to 320 on a stiffer plastic to get it to laminate better. I am still getting cross overs in the back now too. I keep adjusting temps on each pot to see if I can find the magic numbers. Just trial and error I guess. Thanks for your help! 

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2 minutes ago, squigster said:

They got a little better last night, But still tweaking it. 

IMG_3928.JPG

Those look great!  If I could make a suggestion, I'd say maybe a touch less pearl, but otherwise great stuff!

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Just now, alsworms said:

Those look great!  If I could make a suggestion, I'd say maybe a touch less pearl, but otherwise great stuff!

I know. What happened is the pot apparently didnt get flushed completely even though I suck out what I thought may have been left but apparently blue was left over and tinted my clear plastic which is what I was after and so I had to add white which still made a blue tint so I added white pearl powder to try and overcome the blue and it overdid it. I added a drop of black to try and remove the blue hue also. Just frustrating trying to clean the pots completely out. Going to call UM today for suggestions as this is 2nd time I thought it was flushed but was not. 

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2 hours ago, squigster said:

I know. What happened is the pot apparently didnt get flushed completely even though I suck out what I thought may have been left but apparently blue was left over and tinted my clear plastic which is what I was after and so I had to add white which still made a blue tint so I added white pearl powder to try and overcome the blue and it overdid it. I added a drop of black to try and remove the blue hue also. Just frustrating trying to clean the pots completely out. Going to call UM today for suggestions as this is 2nd time I thought it was flushed but was not. 

 

You're going to have to plan when you shoot certain colours, chasing a strong primary colour like red or blue and others like chartreuse  with clear or white is very hard to do without contaminating them. With the small passages in the manifold you can never actually clean them out. Best you could do is blow them out with air but it won't get everything. 

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Don't know if u read my post on how i clean mine so i go over it again a little better. with a cool pot i pull the plug out do this slow because most of the time u can pull one side out either the valve side or the main valve side. I then turn on the pots and let it warm up to about 175 to 200 i twist the valves with a couple 1/4" wooden dowels taped together spacing then to fit the valve i do this to keep from scratching the valve. Then i take air blower and blow thru the valves it will blow the plastic out  in a worm shape into the pot . I blow all three valves make sure  they are clear then u should not have any bleed  back. I then take the nuts off my injector and remove all the plastic from the pistons and the tips . Seem like i have heard someone else have problems with the smaller tube 1:3 not sure who , but those look good i use the 50:50 on my baits. I did try it with a twin injector  but went back to the 50/50.  I just ordered a 2nd injector to have an extra if i start to have problems i will switch to the other also got the injector  heater so i can adjust the temp on my injector. Cub48

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15 hours ago, Cub48 said:

Don't know if u read my post on how i clean mine so i go over it again a little better. with a cool pot i pull the plug out do this slow because most of the time u can pull one side out either the valve side or the main valve side. I then turn on the pots and let it warm up to about 175 to 200 i twist the valves with a couple 1/4" wooden dowels taped together spacing then to fit the valve i do this to keep from scratching the valve. Then i take air blower and blow thru the valves it will blow the plastic out  in a worm shape into the pot . I blow all three valves make sure  they are clear then u should not have any bleed  back. I then take the nuts off my injector and remove all the plastic from the pistons and the tips . Seem like i have heard someone else have problems with the smaller tube 1:3 not sure who , but those look good i use the 50:50 on my baits. I did try it with a twin injector  but went back to the 50/50.  I just ordered a 2nd injector to have an extra if i start to have problems i will switch to the other also got the injector  heater so i can adjust the temp on my injector. Cub48

Thanks,

My issue is with the 1;3 injector mostly on medium grade plastic. I have to raise the temperature about 10 more degrees to get it to work good but if the medium plastic  happens to get set at all in the injector forget about it. Its a tear down of the injector. Id love to put a torch to the end but afraid of cooking the ORing. I just wish the injectors came apart easier or should I say quicker for cleaning. I will try blowing air through it tonight and see how that works out for me. I guess I should take things apart incase something gets messed up that I can replace it if I have to. Luckily my brother is a machinist so I can have him make me something if needed. I dont get why I dont have issues with the 50/50 clogging as much as the 1:3. The ports are the same size. It would be great if the ports were a threaded piece you could screw out for quick clean outs. Thanks for your feedback.   

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On 6/18/2017 at 11:52 PM, mark poulson said:

Thanks.  Those baits look great, but it's too rich for my blood.

And, just for the record, I like the first batch better.  Nothing in life is perfect.

I hear ya Mark and dont disagree but guys want to buy them and some want them as perfect as possible unfortunately. I like the marbelizing myself but not everyone else does.  

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