ddl Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 hey guys what product is the hardest and most durable clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 JMHO, moisture cured urethane (KBS Diamond coat or Dick Nite) or UV cured polyester resin (Alumi-UV) are probably the toughest topcoats. In practical terms, durability also depends on film thickness. A single coat of Devcon Two Ton epoxy or several coats of Envirotex Lite epoxy can be just as durable against hook rash just because they are thicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 It also depends on what you're using as a building material. Wood expands and contracts with temperature changes, so, for larger wooden baits, a decoupage epoxy, like E tex, is a good choice. It is designed to cover large wooden surfaces, like bar and table tops, so it remains somewhat flexible. Plastic and resin baits are more stable, so moisture cured urethanes work great on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 mark. stated it all in a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 I consider baits beyond 4" or so large. With this being said KBS is my choice smaller, although I haven't had no trouble with lures up to 8" (grab something if you feel faint from this)....with Rustoleum Crystal Clear. A little subtle finish, not like D2T, ETex, DN or KBS. It works for me and works well on other baits, excluding soft plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 I find Epoxy MUCH more durable than KBS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 I think you also have to consider film thickness when you compare epoxy and Mcu durability. I use Devcon 2T epoxy and Dick Nite MCU. One coat of epoxy or two of MCU and they both work fine on a typical bass crankbait. But the epoxy is several times thicker than the MCU. When I make baits specifically for trolling, the epoxy lasts longer against hook rash wearing down to the wood than the MCU does. Not because it's harder or tougher, just because it's much thicker. So yes the epoxy is more durable in a practical sense for that application. However if the coating thicknesses were identical I have no doubt MCU would last longer. For clarity, gloss, and resistance to yellowing, MCU wins hands down. All these attributes are important and there are always trade offs among finishes. You have to rank them according to your particular likes/dislikes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 In summary, your question is like asking if we prefer redheads, blonds, or .......... and the answer is YES! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Nathan turned me on to KBS. He mentioned sothing that I didnt for get. He wrote that two coates was equal to a coat of epoxy. I have brought that up from time to time in threads. I want to hear their opinions and most cases I hear what Nathan stated. I believe so also. Hey, smorgasbord for me...... AA! Yes, to all of the above except for any mixing. I want to put baits out quick when I'm working. As long as everyone is happy.......I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, DaleSW said: Nathan turned me on to KBS. He mentioned sothing that I didnt for get. He wrote that two coates was equal to a coat of epoxy. I have brought that up from time to time in threads. I want to hear their opinions and most cases I hear what Nathan stated. I believe so also. Hey, smorgasbord for me...... AA! Yes, to all of the above except for any mixing. I want to put baits out quick when I'm working. As long as everyone is happy.......I'm happy. Everyone knows that I am an AlumiUV fan, super clear, super hard but flexible, but ...... I still have my lure turner and depending on what I am doing, how big the lure is, well, why limit myself to just one. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 If Alumi-UV cures hard without wax flakes, and I trust that it does, it has to be the fastest tough clearcoat without a drawback. It does seem to be considerably more expensive than the other choices mentioned. That doesn't mean I'll throw away my epoxy and MCU but I'd like to try it in the future. Thanks for the review Anglinarcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 4 hours ago, Anglinarcher said: Everyone knows that I am an AlumiUV fan, super clear, super hard but flexible, but ...... I still have my lure turner and depending on what I am doing, how big the lure is, well, why limit myself to just one. LOL Do you use a UV light to cure it, and, if so, which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Yes, my go to is a UV fingernail light. a 5" lure is pretty much max and I need to rotate it several times. I have a full blown box in storage that I made from components I got from solacure and tanninglamps4less. The following will get you pretty close. It works very well, but it is packed away right now. In about 5 minutes it is done, clear, no sag, solid. http://www.solacure.com/poolcue.html http://www.tanninglamps4less.com/uvcuring.html http://www.tanninglamps4less.com/wo8ba.html http://www.tanninglamps4less.com/universaluv.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 4 hours ago, BobP said: If Alumi-UV cures hard without wax flakes, and I trust that it does, it has to be the fastest tough clearcoat without a drawback. It does seem to be considerably more expensive than the other choices mentioned. That doesn't mean I'll throw away my epoxy and MCU but I'd like to try it in the future. Thanks for the review Anglinarcher. No wax to it, it is not intended to cure like Solar-res does. I tried it and even Solar did fair if you put it in for 30 seconds, took it out for 30 seconds, etc., but it was never "clear". Yes, AlumiUV is more expensive and if you make a full box like I have in storage it takes some time, but to put a lure in and get it fully cured and ready to ship or fish in minutes verses hours is sure nice. Funny, have a picture of my lure turner, but not my UV box. I must be loosing my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddl Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 hey guys tks a lot for all your precious reply! so no love for polyurethane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Polyurethane is cheaper I will say, however I always found it yellowed over time. Us fisherman can especially prolong that, leaving a bait on the boat all day or keeping it in the sun.. it also came off easily for me. If I was doing a high quantity, KBS would be my go to finish. I just never used it all before it went bad, so I have not bought any more. I have the same bottle of 2 part Art resin that I've had for a little under a year. My only problem there is I'm almost out. I like Solarez but I only use it on my own baits, or if a friend is super desperate. That also chips sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Ddl, lots of classic custom wood baits were coated with polyurethane through the years. It was one of the good choices available. But times change and coatings chemistry has changed to include more durable finishes that are tougher and non-yellowing. Guys like them to make lures that fish longer before the inevitable happens and the lure self destructs. That doesn't mean polyurethane is a no-no if it fits your style of building and you are happy with its performance, especially if the newer options like uv or moisture cured "thanes" are too much of a hassle, or too expensive, which they certainly can be for some. There's no perfect topcoat for every builder and every bait. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Hardest, durability, etc.... are all separate variables and are frequently independent of each other. Lure makers spend a lot of time trying to find the holy grail of topcoats (easy to apply, easy to store, quick drying, hard, not fragile, flexible, water proof, non yellowing, cheap, and several others). To be honest any of the usual top coats will be fine for the typical lure maker. It comes down down to the individual and what variables he puts emphasis on that he/she can best accomplish with their ability. Some guys are too impatient for a slower cure time and love UV set products. Others couldn't brush on devcon or etex if their lives depended on it. Some guys need a fast applied product due to production level, and various other reasons. Yellowing poly..... Yellow top coats was the rage at one time in many cranking circles. How many Poe's cranks did guys bake in the sun to force the sought after yellowed coloration it added? I can recall seeing some guys with hundreds of cranks laying out deck rails, sidewalks, or dash boards of trucks lined with baits on several occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddl Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 5 hours ago, BobP said: Ddl, lots of classic custom wood baits were coated with polyurethane through the years. It was one of the good choices available. But times change and coatings chemistry has changed to include more durable finishes that are tougher and non-yellowing. Guys like them to make lures that fish longer before the inevitable happens and the lure self destructs. That doesn't mean polyurethane is a no-no if it fits your style of building and you are happy with its performance, especially if the newer options like uv or moisture cured "thanes" are too much of a hassle, or too expensive, which they certainly can be for some. There's no perfect topcoat for every builder and every bait. so true,it look like the good classic have not change at all since many years,wiley,leopardis,minteer, boyer still use poly.it's ok over urethane but over cedar sometimes they don't even last a year when musky are in love whit them.but i still buy them but i should stop specially when it's 40 + bucks a piece .and i think the fume of it is very toxic vs epoxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 All topcoats have toxic properties, including epoxies. Fewer people are affected by epoxy but some develop skin sensitivity to it. All topcoats ending in "thane" contain solvents that are unhealthy. Two part automotive urethane topcoats contain isocyanates that are extremely toxic. Whatever you use, you should consider measures to prevent being affected. That isn't hard to do with most topcoats available to the consumer market. Good ventilation and keeping the topcoat at arm's length is sufficient for most hobby users. But remember that the toxic effect depends not only on the concentration but also the frequency of exposure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddl Posted August 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 very well explained,tks to you and all the others guys for their reply.i think i make my choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 thru the years I have become sensitive to envirotex. I get itchy with contact,. its rubber gloves now. as for using automotive clears they are toxic. before shooting,we start the blower system to create a draft. that way shooting into the plegnum fumes and overspray wont backwash into the area.. my blower system will open a mandoor from 24 feet away..as posted its repeated exposure that will get ya. play safe guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddl Posted August 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 i have a turbine the size of small pizza do you think it's enough to make a painting box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 DDL, it depends on the cubic feet per minute (cfm) that the fan/tubine moves air. Some say 200+ cfm's are needed. Make sure it's a variable motor and is intringently safe. Just a safety note. As far as KBS I dip, I'm leery of spraying it as Woodie has stated. , that's one strong fan Woodie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddl Posted August 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 mg best forum ever,i feel like a vip whit all these quick reply lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
