Resin hard baits

[Hillbilly voodoo]

New to the forum and trying to perfect my crank baits

For the last few years I have made wooden crank baits and have made many that worked amazing. The problem is they all end up as one offs because I lack the ability to duplicate them. The price of hand shaping till it just looks good and move the way I want lol

I want to try making molds and pouring my designs out of resin but don't really know where to start

what resins would you recommend?

any advice for someone new to this processes?

 

 

[Anglinarcher]

Welcome to the site, and may you enjoy your lure making as much as so many of us do.

I believe in using all the resources available to us.  That includes YouTube, the suppliers tutorials, and of course this web site.  The search feature on this site can answer a lot of questions.  Go to Activity (top right of screen), at the bottom of the list as you hover over it you will see search.

With that in mind, as awesome as this site is, it does not have a great tutorial section, so I will take you to Alumilite's sister site Makelure.com and their tutorials.  I prefer the Alumilite products but have used Smooth-on as well.  With few exceptions, what you do with one you can do with another.

http://www.makelure.com/store/pg/54-How-To-Videos.aspx

Tutorials they have will get you close to what you want to do, and have all the basics for you.  Once you have reviewed the basics, then that is where this site becomes a SUPER SITE.  Start asking specific questions and the answers will flow like water under pressure. 

As for specific products, it depends on what you are doing.  For example:

1) Near neutral buoyancy to slightly buoyant - Alumilite White with Microballons.

2) Buoyant lures - Alumilite White with Microballons, rotomolded with less material to give you a hollow body.  (Variations on this available)

3) Buoyant lures with the buoyancy of cedar wood - Alumifoam

4) Buoyancy slightly more then balsa - Alumilite White shell (rotomolded) with a Alumilite 610 foam core (fill).

I am attaching a density chart that should help you get started. 

Also, I caution you about posting lure photos.  If we are "bragging" or "advertising" it is forbidden.  But, if it is to show a process or demonstrate something, or to show a problem, it is permissible.  So, in an attempt to demonstrate that you can be consistent with resin and get excellent results, I will post a picture.  I hope Nathan lets me get away with this this time.  LOL  The lures shown are made using method 4 discussed above, with a photo transfer process for the colors and AlumiliteUV for a clear coat.

Once you get this digested, only your own imagination will limit you.

Good luck, and again, welcome to the greatest source of lure making available.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Thanks Anglinarcher

That is the kind of info I was looking for. I don't mind some trail and error but just want to start with a good product 

How do you find the resin strength wise. A lot of the lures I make get used for big lake trout and at times chinook salmon. Also fish pike so teeth come into play

Thanks for the heads up about pics

 

 

[Anglinarcher]

The lure I show above has a "thin" Alumilite White with Microballons shell, and a foam core.  It has caught Brown Trout to almost 12 pounds, Rainbow Trout to over 10 pounds, Redfish in the Gulf of Mexico to 30 pounds, and my son uses it all the time for Tiger Musky and Pike.  One does have tooth marks in one now after three years of fishing.  My son used them for Chinook up to 40 pounds in Alaska this summer (trolling in the ocean with downeriggers).  and friends use my lure for Lake Trout while trolling as well (Downriggers).

I have destroyed some of them over 10 years, but at a far slower rate then the commercial baits I buy or the wood baits I sometimes make.  In fact, I would almost say they are indestructible, well almost. 

On the other hand, I used ETec as a clear coat in those days and the AlumiUV I use now is stronger.

Now, the Alumifoam is bullet proof, figuratively speaking.  I have taken a hammer to it and not broken it.  I have tied it to a 5 foot line on the end of a fishing rod and slammed it into concrete over and over before it broke.  Larry Dahlberg of "Hunt for Big Fish" fishing show fame has used it for several toothy species around the world and even Wolf and Tiger fish only left tooth marks on it while they destroy wood lures sink hollow plastic lures.

In my opinion, resin is stronger, easier to use, more consistent.  Because you are already a good carver, making masters to make your silicone molds with will be easy.  I envy that talent, I am slow and it is frustrating.

BUT, it is a different method and will take some time to get the hang of it.  Not too long, but some experimentation to get the hang of it.

 

[Travis]

I ended up molding a lot of cranks (bass) and mainly used 2 part polyurethane foams (16 lb density).   Many have used the foams for tooth critters also with out any issue.    Mainly used US composites foam but did do some resins from Smooth-On.   Doesn't take long and you can churn out a lot of baits.     

Unfortunately most of the tutorials or posts on how do things have been lost.   Many were far superior to what one frequently comes across now. 

 

Typical RTV mold and foam lure.  Still have a few of those molds over 11 years now.

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Travis

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Anglinarcher I would not say I am a good carver mostly OCD and stubborn lol. I create many regects to achieve results I want sometimes. Other times I get it right first go.

I have looked at the gallery here and would say compared to the talent here I am mediocre in comparison  

thanks for the responses guys I think now I just need to order the supplies and try it. Liking the idea of the Alumifoam do to the strength and the fact I presently work with cedar so hopefully the similarities will help with the learning curve 

I just finished shaping a 5 inch lipless minnow and tested its action. It's looks so promising it will be hard not to just finish and fish it before I can mold it 

Guess I will just carve in the small pretty details and put it aside.

[Anglinarcher]

I am about to do some videos.  I am not the best "videographer" but if you have specific issues, let me know and I will see what I can do for you.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Living in northern BC it will take a bit to get things shipped to me. If I have issues once my supplies arrive I will be sure to ask for advice.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Well an alumilite kit ordered to test this process now for the waiting game

[Madman4512]

I'm getting lots of air pockets in my resin molds I'm trying to copy and produce diving cranks with bills with a one piece through wire. Should I cast the bills separately?Or cast lure halfs ? Im getting like a 20% success rate any tips or tricks?

 

[Anglinarcher]

I am not quite sure I understand.

• Are you getting air pockets in the molds when you make the mold?
• Are your molds good but you get air pockets in the surface of the resin when you pour?

Attach some pictures or PM me some pictures and we can get this figured out for you.  Include pictures of your mold, your problem lure, and if possible a video of you pouring.

My guess, and at this time it is a guess, is that you need to have air escape ports so the resin can be poured in and air can escape from the tight areas.  This is true for making resin baits as well as soft plastics.  But, sometimes the problems are different and if you can attach or PM me the requested items, I/WE will get it figured out for you.

[Ces]

Hey guys,

I've been using Alumiite white with microballoons but its just not buoyant enough for what I want. I'm looking to switch to Alumifoam but are you able to drill it, sand it or carve it?

 

Thanks for the help guys.

Cheers,

Ces.

[ravenlures]

Ces

I make a musky lure out of alumilite white with microballoons and have no problem floating a 8" lure, are you using enough balloons to make it float. How big is your lure.

Wayne

[Ces]

Hi Wayne,

Its 55 mm (about 2 1/4 ") and I think that's the problem. Larger baits may allow for more microballoons because of larger pouring holes (I think), also the hardware going into a bait with smaller volume effects the buoyancy more (please note that both of these statements are conjecture). At the moment, anything above about 12% microballoons by weight  makes the resin unpourable. I do believe, the pour hole is adequate after several adjustments, however AnglinArcher's charts leads me to  believe that achieving the specific gravity I'm after may be impossible with RC-3 and microballoons/Q-cells.

 

Either way, I cant get enough microballoons in my resin to mach the 0.48 gm per cm squared density timber (i.e. Radiata Pine) I designed the master and tested the lure on.

 

I believe that Alumifoam has a density of around 0.47, so might be a good start but then I want to add rattles.... which the timer models didnt have, so I dont know?

 

Thanks again guys. Sorry to the Hillbilly Voodoo for hijacking the post but I think this info might be helpful to you too, mate.

Cheers,

Ces.

[Anglinarcher]

17 hours ago, Ces said:

Hey guys,

I've been using Alumiite white with microballoons but its just not buoyant enough for what I want. I'm looking to switch to Alumifoam but are you able to drill it, sand it or carve it?

 

Thanks for the help guys.

Cheers,

Ces.

You can drill it and saw it.  You can sand it, but it exposes the open pores and destroys the skin that self forms when you pour it.  Carving it would be possible, but difficult; this stuff is tough as metal.  I have taken a hammer to it and it was largely undamaged.  I put it on a braided line and had about 5 feet off the end of the rod, then used the line speed to slam it into concrete.  It took several slams to break the Alumifoam.

 

I use the stuff for my final product, I do NOT use it for items I need to sand or carve.  It is great stuff, but it is not all things for all people.

I do sand or file off the sprues (fill and vent holes) and fill the exposed pores with wood putty, sand smooth, finish like normal.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Anglinarcher
Added more clarification

[Anglinarcher]

8 hours ago, Ces said:

Hi Wayne,

Its 55 mm (about 2 1/4 ") and I think that's the problem. Larger baits may allow for more microballoons because of larger pouring holes (I think), also the hardware going into a bait with smaller volume effects the buoyancy more (please note that both of these statements are conjecture). At the moment, anything above about 12% microballoons by weight  makes the resin unpourable. I do believe, the pour hole is adequate after several adjustments, however AnglinArcher's charts leads me to  believe that achieving the specific gravity I'm after may be impossible with RC-3 and microballoons/Q-cells.

 

Either way, I cant get enough microballoons in my resin to mach the 0.48 gm per cm squared density timber (i.e. Radiata Pine) I designed the master and tested the lure on.

 

I believe that Alumifoam has a density of around 0.47, so might be a good start but then I want to add rattles.... which the timer models didnt have, so I dont know?

 

Thanks again guys. Sorry to the Hillbilly Voodoo for hijacking the post but I think this info might be helpful to you too, mate.

Cheers,

Ces.

 

 If you can't pour more then 12% Microballons, there is something wrong with how you are doing it.  Your pour and vent holes must  be tiny.  I frequently pour with far more than that and get excellent results.  In fact, while Alumilite says the max should be an equal volume of Microballons to an equal volume of resin (for example 10 cc Microballons to 5 cc Part A plus 5 cc part B), I often go way over that if I am doing a squish mold.  I actually prefer 25% of my mixtures to be Microballons, 75% combined Part A plus Part B.

I do agree that smaller baits tend to have more "hardware weight" relative to larger baits, but they don't need to.  You can downsize the hardware quite easily (https://www.mcmaster.com/#metal-wire/=18vc5z4 or http://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?cat_s=RDC&p=3 should get you started).  Still, your issue is correct, you cannot get down to .48 grams per cubic centimeter DIRECTLY with resin and Microballons. 

A little trick I have been doing lately is to mold my lures in stages.  I mix a straight mix of resin, small amount, perhaps 10%, and pour into the bottom of the lure.  Before it sets, I take a premeasured amount of Lead #9 shot and pour it into the mold.  This allows the "ballast" to settle very low in the lure and distribute front or back as I tilt the mold.  I can easily get a lure perfectly weighted to "sink" or "float" horizontally that way, or tilted if that is what the design calls for.  I know what the final weight of the lure must be (in your case you have samples made from Radiata Pine, so you know the target weight.  You can now mix exactly that correct amount of resin and pour into your mold.  It WILL NOT FILL THE MOLD and you don't want it to.  Now stopper your fill and vent holes and start to rotate your mold.  The resin will cure in about 7 minutes or so from when it was mixed, so if you pour it in after 4 minutes you have only 3 minutes to rotate/turn your mold.  This will give you a solid ballast, a strong but hollow bait, sufficient to hold properly designed hardware.    With practice you will be much more consistent then with Pine, or any other wood.

I have not built one yet, but rotomolds would make the process so much easier. 

 

A refinement on the above idea is to use tungsten powder as a ballast.  You actually mix it with the resin, like you mix Microballons, and pour the ballast layer together.  Also, you can add Microballons to the hollow top layer if you wish, it will give you more "bulk" for holding hardware without adding much weight.

Last, adding rattles with a foam fill can be a little tricky.  You cannot just insert a rattle tube and then pour the foam because the foam will lift it to the top of the mold.  http://www.lurepartsonline.com/Online-Store/Rattles_2/  The same is true of ballast, you can't pour it into the mold and then add the Alumifoam.   But, you can drill out the spot and insert the balls directly into the Alumifoam hole, then seal, or you can insert the tube into the hole and then seal.  Of course, if you do the hollow cavity resin design I mentioned, you can drill a hole, drop the balls inside, seal.  You then actually have created a rattle chamber and a weigh transfer chamber at the same time. 

Note that many of us have found that adding rattles in a bait makes it lighter, so we need to add more ballast.

I hope I have addressed some of your concerns.  And don't worry too much about hijacking a thread, we have all done it.  LOL

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Hey Ces no worries on the highjack I got the info I was looking for and if this thread expands into helping others even better 

[Ces]

Really great info Wayne. Thank  you very much for sharing. I can tell a lot of research went into the knowledge behind those posts, so it is very generous of you to put it up here.

 

In terms of my resin mixing method, I slowly mix the measured amount of microballoons in the hardener until thoroughly mixed but not too aerated and then quickly mix in the resin before pouring. Using this technique, above 12% by weight of Q-cells turns my resin into something like very thick peanut butter. Forget the size of the pour holes.... this stuff would need to be spread into the mold with a butter knife. Wherre am I going wrong?

 

I'll have to give the home-roto moulding a go... I was thinking of securing the rattle to an internal harness/through-wire system, so the foam couldn't move it about. What do you think? Also, I think its best to know what I'm planning on chasing with these baits. These are designed as top-water walkers for Australian Bass. I have heard some guys comment that they are similar to White Bass found in some parts of the U.S. Typical forage for Aus Bass off the top would be flies, dragonflies, beetles, cicadas and moths not frogs, mice and lizards, so the baits need to be a little smaller than the standard Large Mouth bait. I have heard some anglers say my 55 mm baits are too big but I have caught tiny bass with the lures so I cant agree.

 

Thanks again Wayne.

Ces.

[Anglinarcher]

OK, apparently Q-cells are not the same as Microballons.  Microballons are sold by Alumilite corporation, but I suspect that other companies make something similar.  When I do a search for Q-cells I get "photovoltaic (PV) solar cells with headquarters in Seoul, South Korea",

If you are not using micro sized hollow glass spheres then we are comparing something so different that my chart will not help you at all.

Additionally, the quantities are by volume, not weight, so if you were to measure the Microballons by weight, then yes, it would be like peanut butter.  Where are you wrong?, it is impossible to know without seeing your process in person, other then you are doing by weight.  Make a short video of it and send it to us.   I have used resin and Microballons for well over 10 years now and 12% should look only slightly thicker than whole milk when poured.

If your Australian Bass are like our White Bass, then you don't need the internal through wire.  Alumilite Resins, and the Smooth-On Resins, are strong enough to hold the hooks and line ties without the added weight or effort.  In fact, they are strong enough that few fish in the world could pull the hooks free, and they won't be hitting 55 mm lures.  LOL.  Wayne with Ravenlures is correct, your lure will float, just don't use the internal harness, use line ties and hook ties.  http://www.lurepartsonline.com/Online-Store/Screw-Eyes_3/

But, you asked about the internal harness holding rattles.  Alumifoam is so strong when it expands that it would be difficult.  The Alumifoam is so strong that internal harnesses are totally NOT NECESSARY.  The Alumifoam 610 foam will work with the internal harness and rattle tubes. 

Friends have made lures form Alumifoam, for some of the toothiest critters in the world, and to date, NO fish has ever destroyed a lure.  Some have left tooth marks, broken teeth off in them, even scratched them, but none have destroyed them.

Good luck,

Steve

 

[Ces]

On ya Steve. The through wire idea was purely for the rattle (i have been trying glass rattles), my timber models all used twisted wire eyelets, glued in with no problem. I don't see our bass busting up these lures.

As far as the Q-cells I'm using, here's a description from the website 'Fibreglass & Resin Sales'- www.fibreglass-resin-sales.com.au

" Q Cells – One of the original micro spheres, bubbles or balloons. It has reasonable compression strength and is generally used to get bulk without adding too much weight. It also sands easily. "

That store is not where I bought them but it's the same product.

I think you've set me  on the right path. I might try some home rotomoulding with straight RC-3 and then popping some ball bearings in after the fact for the rattle, as I already have plenty of that product. If that doesn't produce I'll try Alumifoam and give up on the rattles. The timber prototypes didn't have them and they still caught fish.

What do you think of this idea for adjusting my pouring mould for rotomoulding? Insert a hard blank into the mould, coat the pour hole with mould release, fill pour hole with RTV silicone and let set. Use this as a plug.

The mould also has 1 small vent (toothpick sized). Just stick toothpick in the vent hole before rotomoulding?

Thanks again, Steve.

Ces

[Anglinarcher]

3 hours ago, Ces said:

What do you think of this idea for adjusting my pouring mould for rotomoulding? Insert a hard blank into the mould, coat the pour hole with mould release, fill pour hole with RTV silicone and let set. Use this as a plug.

The mould also has 1 small vent (toothpick sized). Just stick toothpick in the vent hole before rotomoulding?

Yes, that will work very well.  I use a rubber plug I found up town that fits.

[Ces]

Thanks for all the help mate.

[ravenlures]

Ces

I bet that if you could pour more lures at a time that it would be easer to mix a larger amount it would work. Try this just make a double amount of mix for your lure and mix it fast so that it pours into your hole, hold your cup high to form a thin stream of resin mix .

Keep a steady hand when pouring.

Wayne

[Sudd]

A question I have is this, I use alumifoam and no matter the weight I've tried a I cannot get my baits to sink! What do you have to do to get resin foam to sink?

[Anglinarcher]

LOL, funny how Resin and Microballons won't float for some but Alumifoam won't sink for others.  They truly are different products.

Alumifoam is the same density as Cedar Wood.  At .47 grams per cubic centimeter, it means that for every cubic centimeter of Alumifoam you need .53 grams of weight just to make it neutrally buoyant. 

I cannot copy a link from our own web site right now, but hopefully the following link will show up soon.  If not, do a search for Archimedes Dunk Test on this site and you will find the link.

Do the dunk test and it will tell you how much volume your lure has.  The volume is equal to the same amount, in grams, it will take to make the lure neutral.  Lets Call that variable A.  Weight the lure and see how much it weighs.  Lets call that variable B.  Subtract the weight of the lure, B, from the total, A, and that is the minimum weight you must add.  Adding more will make it sink.