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Flat-sided Vs Rounded lures... musings?
46 replies to this topic
Posted 03 November 2004 - 10:29 AM
:oops: Blame it on TU.
It's fun though, having somewhere with a bunch of people who are as passionate about cranks as I am. Hopfully none turn into crank-case like me.
Mallard: you've got to tell me what you're up to first. You experiments coming along okay?
Posted 03 November 2004 - 12:23 PM
Here is a summary of what I learned from all my hard work in October:
First off - I am hard-headed and need to pay more attention to the experts here.
Second - I am hard-headed and I need realize if I have a good idea, someone else has probably already had the same idea 50 years ago.
After more than a dozen prototypes and a bunch of testing I have come up with shape for my banana lure that I really like, only to realize I just redeveloped the South Bend Teas-Oreno! :oops: I could have just copied the bait and been done in a weekend!
I took some pictures this morning but they did not turn out, I will try again tomorrow and have a more complete report.
Posted 05 November 2004 - 11:19 AM
Just stealing your good ideas
Posted 05 November 2004 - 11:43 AM
Mallet: Oops did I miss spelled... since you called yourself a hardhead twice, I'll just leave it as it is.
Seriously, I know your frustrations. Talk to a Lucky Craft representative here over the last weekend & an idea that I was brewing on my computer for quite sometime.... & he showed me a prototype that Lucky Craft is gonna launch in 2005. :!: Theiers definately will be much more detailed & nicer then mine with some exotic materials; but the basic concept is the same... grrrrr.
I guess there only so much shape & action that a plug/lure can have that'll still consistantly catch fish. The tried & tested shapes & size are all out there with a little bit of variations here & there. I've attached a pic showing the traced outline of 4 "different" lure stacked togather. They look so different but basically they are quite the same. See the jumble of the stacked outline, they only differ by slight dings & dents here & there. If you try with other styles like shad, minnows, Rat-L-trap shapes; similiar ones are all over the place. Maybe the subtle difference makes the difference? I'm not so sure. It differentiates the different manufactures/makers YES. It makes a lot of difference in fishability - I doubt it. Like I've said b4, there are "sweet-spot" for shapes/profile/lips combination. You want a Rapala Fatrap to have a tight swimming action like a Rapala ShadRap? I can change the shape & balancing to get to that.... but a Fatrap shape with tight action & little body roll... again I doubt it's fish catching ability, tight action just don't really go with a fat lure.
I got carried away again. Hope tihis might point you... somewhere.
Anyone having the same musings as I do?
PS:Mallard: Notice you just posted your new lure as I post mine You're welcome to take the ideas & improve on it.
Posted 04 December 2004 - 05:37 AM
Guys, I have been so busy this last year I haven't had a lot of time to participate in these discussions like i would like to. But I had to give an old seaman's out look on this subject......Every object in water moves in six directions being----surge , sway , yaw , pitch , roll , and heave. It does not mater what the object is, a stick , battle ship or crank bait . With that being said we can only control three of them.That being surge,(fore and aft movement) sway (side to side) and yaw (rotating on an axis so that the head moves in opposite direction of the tail). Without getting to deep into stability these three movements that we can control are done so by changing the (VCG) vertical center of gravity,by moving weight up and down. (LCG) longitudinal center of gravity, by moving weight fore and aft . (TCG) transverse center of gravity. by moving weight port and strb. How far to move and the direction of the weight all depends on (COB) center of bouncy, pressure from water pushing up on the object due the displacement of the object. On board we do a stability calculation each time we load and right before we sail and it have to be dead on. Just think of the baits we all have built with too much weight in the wrong place it doesn't run right or may even roll over. That kind of mistakes on board can sink a ship. Hope I didn't confuse any one. Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to explain.
Posted 04 December 2004 - 03:25 PM
captbob said an axis where the head moves different from the tail. After picking a proffesor of fluids blau blau brains at the local uni this is the idea I've come up with just wish I had the time to do it.I make a flat jigjointed lure which if may say moves pretty good with an anchor point at the nose.Now if I make two anchor points top and bottom a third of the way back on the first piece triangulating with wire trace to the line I've changed the axis point. This thing is really gonna move------isnt it.
Posted 30 January 2005 - 11:20 PM
Captbob: Just had the time to come back to these musings You're dead on about this COB thing. And with the size of crank- baits its balancing is even more delicate. Then there's concept of moving balast which alters the COB subtlely which then produce some interesting "hunting" action to a crank. (I'm a scuba diver so I have the pleasure of observing cranks in action from all angles.)
Do you have the equation or software that do all these calculations for ship balast distribution?
I can imagine the formula to be really complex if we want it for a crank. We have to contend with surface drag, COB, fulcrum point (tow-eye and "balast" distribution), vortex/turbulance resistance, lure shape hydrodynamics, lure material density... the list goes on. But just getting some of these factor into a calculable would be a great asset.
Maybe we can adopt your formulas to a crank & make weighting crank bait more a science than trial&errors. Even just pinponting the COB would be a great asset .