First Glide bait about to mold

[jthod]

I've carved this shade glide bait from basswood.  I have not parted the two halves, or added hardware obviously.

I have had some suggestions to mold this as a master before I go any further, as is adding ballast holes, wire form rings, reliefs for fins, etc...

I've also seem a lot done that the original wooden prototype was swim tested, and then molded.  

For what it costs to make a mold (or more than one mold with the first option), it seems as though it would be best to swim test, and THEN make a mold of the semi-complete prototype.

I've got a mold box built and ready to begin molding the modeling clay inside, but I was reluctant to go any further.

Opinions?  

 

[blackjack]

Personally I would build a wooden bait to completion,test, test again, and retest, then mold. Kinda hard to make changes once you do the molding

[jthod]

Other than just making another mold of the tested bait.  Joint angles, hardware added, any other adjustments made would be in the second mold.

But, if the joint location is bad on what I have now, I can fill in the joint, re-cast, and cut a new joint.  

[mark poulson]

4 hours ago, jthod said:

Other than just making another mold of the tested bait.  Joint angles, hardware added, any other adjustments made would be in the second mold.

But, if the joint location is bad on what I have now, I can fill in the joint, re-cast, and cut a new joint.  

If making a mold isn't too difficult or expensive for you, I'd suggest you make a mold of your original, and do all of your experimenting on poured prototypes.    That way, you can try a lot of different things without the worry of ruining your original.

After you've gotten the bait to perform like you want, you can make a second mold of the finished bait, with any alterations you've made.

You can even keep tweaking your prototypes after you've gotten the bait to do what you originally wanted, and try really different things, like adding a bill, without fear of ruining your had carved master.

Having identical blanks to play with is really great.

[jthod]

Yeah, that's kind of my thinking of molding the wood master that I have right now.

[mark poulson]

1 hour ago, jthod said:

Yeah, that's kind of my thinking of molding the wood master that I have right now.

Since you can make molds and prototypes, that would be the safest method for me.  That way you always have the master,

Let's hope you get it perfect the first crack out of the box.  Then you can have your master to mount over your workbench, to remind you of the whole process, and to give you a shot of "atta boy" when you're dragging.

[jthod]

55 minutes ago, mark poulson said:

Since you can make molds and prototypes, that would be the safest method for me.  That way you always have the master,

Let's hope you get it perfect the first crack out of the box.  Then you can have your master to mount over your workbench, to remind you of the whole process, and to give you a shot of "atta boy" when you're dragging.

 
kind of wishing I would have carved solid, rather than have the joint most of the way cut, in case the joint is entirely wrong.

BUT, OCD me cut the joint on the solid block, before making any other cuts of shaping the bait because I wanted that cut to be symmetrical and precise.  

I suppose if it came to that, I could fill in the parting line, and re-cast.

[mark poulson]

3 minutes ago, jthod said:

 
kind of wishing I would have carved solid, rather than have the joint most of the way cut, in case the joint is entirely wrong.

BUT, OCD me cut the joint on the solid block, before making any other cuts of shaping the bait because I wanted that cut to be symmetrical and precise.  

I suppose if it came to that, I could fill in the parting line, and re-cast.

You're right, you can always to that, as long as you have the original master.

[capt mike]

On 8/30/2018 at 11:49 AM, mark poulson said:

If making a mold isn't too difficult or expensive for you, I'd suggest you make a mold of your original, and do all of your experimenting on poured prototypes.    That way, you can try a lot of different things without the worry of ruining your original.

After you've gotten the bait to perform like you want, you can make a second mold of the finished bait, with any alterations you've made.

You can even keep tweaking your prototypes after you've gotten the bait to do what you originally wanted, and try really different things, like adding a bill, without fear of ruining your had carved master.

Having identical blanks to play with is really great.

100% agree with Mark. Mold the solid carving. Then make several castings. Cut them all the different ways you can think of and she which swims best. Exactly what I do.

 I’m on my 8th Bluegill bait from a solid mold. I am about to make a two piece mold off of my favorite jointed version .

carving is the longest part of the process,  don’t limit it to one shot. have faith in your original carving and mold it. Then you can try all kinds of options.

Like I told you on the SU site, that bait is nice , you busted your ass with the details and it’s definitely going to work for one thing or another.

Mike

Edited September 4, 2018 by capt mike

[Munro76]

Im in the same boat. In the past i have cut the bait into segments and molded with hardware in the bait. This time im thinking maybe mold and cut after.

[Vodkaman]

I too agree with Mark but for different reasons; the density and other characteristics of the final lure material will be different to the original wood. You would get the wood prototype working, and then likely discover that the cast final product does not swim the same.

Always prototype with the final materials and hardware, including the top coat for the final prototypes.

Dave

[mark poulson]

2 hours ago, Munro76 said:

Im in the same boat. In the past i have cut the bait into segments and molded with hardware in the bait. This time im thinking maybe mold and cut after.

That is a beautiful master.  Be sure to seal it well before you make your mold, or whatever you need to do to protect all that great carving!

[Munro76]

57 minutes ago, mark poulson said:

That is a beautiful master.  Be sure to seal it well before you make your mold, or whatever you need to do to protect all that great carving!

Thanks Mark. What do you suggest to seal the timber?

[mark poulson]

32 minutes ago, Munro76 said:

Thanks Mark. What do you suggest to seal the timber?

I have no idea what to use.

I'm sure someone here can help you, if you tell us what you're going to use to make the mold.

[capt mike]

Well Vodkaman made another great point. Why go through the pain and trouble to get the wood bait to perform only to cast it in another material.  Never swims the same, especially with resin/MB mixes.  Featherlite is .60 appx. Specific gravity. That’s supposed to be a 1:1 volume of resin and MB mix.  Any more MB’s is not recommended due to structural reasons and probably pourability.  Basswood is less dense than featherlight (.50 SG) according to what info is on the net.

 I’ve been through this problem before. My glide swimmers did not swim anything like my wood masters despite several attempts at ballast adjustments.  

So all that being said, cast your material of choice and experiment with that till you get what you want.  

[Chuck Young]

I was thinking the same thing as many others. Basswood is going to perform differently than the resin / micro-balloon  version. The weight distribution is going to be quite different  A master mold without joints and mounting hardware would allow you to refine those points for the final version.

Nice work on the carving. Enjoy the process! And please keep us updated. 

[jthod]

Not too much to update, I haven't had much time to work on it lately. Carving is done.

 

I'm kind of debating on filling the partial cut that I made with clay to make the initial mold.  

 

That, or if the joint that I have made format work on the first casting, fill in and try again.

[mark poulson]

I'd fill it with clay, restore the carving details, and make a mold.

Of course, I don't know what's involved with making a mold for resin baits, so I'm not sure of the steps you need to go through prior to making a mold.