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Tally

Any "REAL" custom crank bait makers left?

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  Tally, like you and many others I used to be on here a lot. Used to custom build my lures from cedar and white pine boards, turn them on the lathe, cut lexan for lips and custom paint. The old gentleman who taught me passed away years ago, with that and as you put it “burning out” a bit, I lost interest in it too. But as you noted, I’m getting the bug again. Hopefully I’ll be on here more too as I noticed it’s been 9-10 years since my last post. Nice to see a couple familiar names.

Scott

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I have thought about making crankbaits again in the past few months but not sure I want to do it again. I lost all my design notes and patterns back in 2008 when I made a major life decision. I still have a few of the baits I made but not the really good ones; I gave those to my son and it is a longer story on why he doesn’t have them anymore.

Now I paint plastics occassionally but mostly make jigs.

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Hey Guys,

I figured this was as good a place as any to poke my head in the window to say hello.  I am a lurker of about 18 months and new to this world of baitmaking.  

I should begin by thanking those that have been contributing information over the years, and sharing what they are willing to share... it’s not always easy to find a definitive answer, but most times I can find something related that gets me pointed in the proper direction to further myself.

I started in to this “hobby” after seeing some of the Incredible lures some folks were producing at my local Muskies Canada chapter.  That, and after seeing the cost of lures!  Lol

Since then I dove into cranks first, and more recently in to blades... it’s been a challenging yet rewarding process.  One of the biggest things I’ve learned just starting out... the process you develop is in most aspects your own.  Trial and error is king, and although can be frustrating, really does develop in to your own recipe.

Every crankbait has its beginning at the local lumber store... yes, big box. Lol!  All have complete wire through design, aluminum sheets cut in to lips, the whole shebang is from scratch.  I do my painting and clear coats, wheel dry... win some battles (more often now that I have some experience under my belt) , and lose plenty.

I take pride in the fact that most of my progress has really come from trial and error... and the cost and time to make said errors.  Although I understand a previous comment about sharing information, and how some feel this site is tight on techniques and tips, however I am already somewhat guarded on what I want to share.  As they say, you gotta give to get, and as much as this site has helped for some oddball items, I still was pretty much on my own.  Not knocking anyone for it either... a guy puts in 30 hours to figure something out, and it’s hard to give it away to thousands of others for nothing more than the glory of a clapping hand emoji!  Lol

After all the hours and lessons from my mistakes, I am finally able to produce baits that are nice enough to show people, and I am somewhat proud of.  I am still light years away from some that I see, but I am accepting that it just takes more time on my part to get to that level.

End of the day, I’ve had one local guy give me a few tips here and there as he is likely one of the top muskie baitmakers in our community.  He does not share much, but if he hears me struggling and knows I’ve made a serious effort to figure it out on my own, he’ll toss me a tidbit to help out a little.  At first I was kinda like “WTF dude, how do I do XYZ? I’m stuck!” and was frustrated he would let me drown.  I now get it... it’s a ton of work to develop your own ways.  The benefit of plugging away without the advice?  You’ll learn differently than everyone else.  Sometimes you’ll even find better ways than your mentors, simply because necessity is truly the mother of invention! 

Thanks again to all that contribute to this great forum and community.  I have a ton of baits to be made... and everyone is indeed a custom one of a kind... not by choice, by experience!  Lol

 

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BlackCrow13 - I understand your points about sharing, and also that you are not alone in this opinion. Also understand that I am not knocking you or anyone else.

Perhaps because I am not in the business of selling baits, I am very much the opposite in my sharing views and opinions. In fact, when I was very active on the building scene, I would take on projects purely to solve a problem, and then publish the solution.

Not all of my projects were successful, but I published my findings regardless. When I read back on some of them, I cringe now :)

I think it is OK to have a few defining trade secrets, but don't let the newcomers drown. Be active, throw them a helping lifeline, or two if required. In my time on TU, I have taken on a few beginners and made them my project, spoon feeding them you might say. Some went on to be experts in their own right.

Many think this is about 'attaboys' and smileys, yes, appreciation is nice but is not what drives me. Some projects took hundreds of hours with virtually no feedback, and that is OK too. Other than the fundamental principle of TU, and my search for personal knowledge, I cannot answer the question 'why?' Oh, and it is fun :)

Dave

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57 minutes ago, Vodkaman said:

BlackCrow13 - I understand your points about sharing, and also that you are not alone in this opinion. Also understand that I am not knocking you or anyone else.

Perhaps because I am not in the business of selling baits, I am very much the opposite in my sharing views and opinions. In fact, when I was very active on the building scene, I would take on projects purely to solve a problem, and then publish the solution.

Not all of my projects were successful, but I published my findings regardless. When I read back on some of them, I cringe now :)

I think it is OK to have a few defining trade secrets, but don't let the newcomers drown. Be active, throw them a helping lifeline, or two if required. In my time on TU, I have taken on a few beginners and made them my project, spoon feeding them you might say. Some went on to be experts in their own right.

Many think this is about 'attaboys' and smileys, yes, appreciation is nice but is not what drives me. Some projects took hundreds of hours with virtually no feedback, and that is OK too. Other than the fundamental principle of TU, and my search for personal knowledge, I cannot answer the question 'why?' Oh, and it is fun :)

Dave

 

The nail on the head... no matter how you get to the end result, it’s FUN!

Plus, I love seeing the rod pounding like a jackhammer smashing 35 40 feet on bottom... did I do that???  Yes you did!  Lol. Very cool feeling!

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File me in the "havnt been around in a while" pile too.... Been a couple years, distracted by other stuff... Havnt abandoned my shop completely, projects have just been much fewer and quite farther between

Design is the only aspect of lure building/crafting that has ever interested me.. Be it cranks, plastics or other.... I guess some favor their passion for actual fishing over the joy of creating their own tools, and opt for painting blanks or injecting off the shelf molds.... That is understandable considering all the weekends i spent in the shop rather than at the lake.... But i still wouldn't trade with them:nuhuh:

 

 

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10 hours ago, bladesandbaits said:

Ha! Mr Dave Talbort in the house!

 

Ha yourself JT!!!  good to see you .  

 

On 1/7/2019 at 12:01 AM, BlackCrowe13 said:

 

End of the day, I’ve had one local guy give me a few tips here and there as he is likely one of the top muskie baitmakers in our community.  He does not share much, but if he hears me struggling and knows I’ve made a serious effort to figure it out on my own, he’ll toss me a tidbit to help out a little.  

 

As much as you hated the fact he would not tell you how to do it from A-Z, I hope you appreciate the fact he actually made you understand what you are doing.  When I started, I had the same frustrations.  I was fortunate that Skeeter took me under his wing.  He never once said here is how to make a crankbait, but knew from my questions that I had in fact done my homework and by my trial and error he knew I was asking the right questions.  I will be forever grateful he never said: here is how you build a bait.  I learned more about a crankbait than I could have imagined.  Struggles and frustration make your mind work and soon you start thinking of new ideas that you want to try.  Some work and most don't, but when you get an idea, try it and it works....... what a feeling!!  

In the end, it's all about having fun!!

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4 hours ago, Tally said:

Ha yourself JT!!!  good to see you .  

 

As much as you hated the fact he would not tell you how to do it from A-Z, I hope you appreciate the fact he actually made you understand what you are doing.  When I started, I had the same frustrations.  I was fortunate that Skeeter took me under his wing.  He never once said here is how to make a crankbait, but knew from my questions that I had in fact done my homework and by my trial and error he knew I was asking the right questions.  I will be forever grateful he never said: here is how you build a bait.  I learned more about a crankbait than I could have imagined.  Struggles and frustration make your mind work and soon you start thinking of new ideas that you want to try.  Some work and most don't, but when you get an idea, try it and it works....... what a feeling!!  

In the end, it's all about having fun!!

Agree fully as mentioned...

As frustrated as I was back then, it helped me become a better craftsman and critical thinker.   Doing it yourself makes it that much sweeter when it works!

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Just got done reading this whole post.....lot  of  stuff and thoughts.  One person posted here in hard baits that they are here to start sharing everything that they have learned from the FB sites. Please start doing so sir. I am ready to learn. 

The Japanese did kick painting up a notch as far as looks. The lures are definitely pretty.  It's just too bad that the paint doesn't stay on on the bait for long.  I have baits that Tally and Coley made 9 years ago and they are stll holding up and look great.

Many folks are here to help.  I know that for a fact,  because many have helped me. A lot of work goes into what they have suceeded and failed on. Personally, I feel if folks want to be a true craftsman they need to do the work too.  I am always glad to help folks get over a hump or help with thoughts to get around a  sticky problem,  just not always give it away.  It's just business. There are a few on this site that shoot more paint in a week than the rest of us do in a year. Many here have worked 60 hour weeks and still put the time in their shops to figure out how to make something work. I guess an old saying says it best....  "How bad do you want it?"

Skeeter

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I will say that the FB sites I've used have helped me improve the finish on my wood baits for airbrushing, clear coating, and foiling dramatically, but they haven't helped as much with actual crankbait building and design. 

Personally, I try not to ask questions unless I have first researched something and attempted to figure out my own solution.  If someone gives you an answer to something it is much less likely that you'll even try to come up with a way to do it yourself and no creative thought is put towards that process.  If we aren't thinking outside of the box then innovation occurs much more slowly.  I'm willing to put in the time and work, and in many instances that has helped me.

The other side of this is there have also been times when I've been stuck on various things that caused me to waste a ton of time figuring something out when there was a simple solution that many builders before me have taken advantage of. 

It's taken me this long to finally get confident that I can produce the few wood models that I make consistently to achieve desired action, and also understand the adjustments that I can make to them to fulfill multiple niches with each body style.  This is for 1 piece balsa and basswood builds that are not inherently complex.  I've got several more complex ideas that I had difficulty working with when I first started building, because I quickly realized that I didn't fully understand all of the variables and forces at play.  Most of these ideas are going to require me to use 2 piece builds.

The biggest problem I'm having at this point is finding ways to speed up the production of my baits so that I can make more efficient use of my time.  Right now I use a band saw for basic shape, disk/belt sander for refining edges, and then carve and hand sand to reach my desired blank shape.  That works well, but the hand carving/sanding is incredibly inefficient. 

In a perfect world new builders would be paired with an experienced one, and there would be a knowledge share that would take place.  It's obvious what the experienced builder provides, but less so with a new builder.  A new builder's lack of experience can actually be an advantage when it comes to creativity and ability to provide a fresh perspective.  A new builder doesn't have preconceived notions about how things should work or be done.  This can help provide new inspiration for crankbait design or production techniques that could be used by both builders.  Think of it similar to how many large companies are moving towards a combination of young and more experienced employees within their executive teams.  Since we don't often have this scenario for crankbait builders this site is about as close as many of us can get to this type of knowledge share.

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I hand shape my cranks, which I make from either balsa or PVC.  I also use a bandsaw to cut out the profiles, and an oscillating belt sander to do my major shaping.

The balsa shapes so easily that I do it with just sanding blocks.

For my finer shaping on PVC baits, like gills, fins, and craw sections, I use a dremel with a flixible shaft, and sanding drums.  It's much faster than carving.

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Tarheelfishing88 - I enjoyed your post. Lots of truths in there, particularly the innovative possibilities of the new builder. In my early days, I refused to view the gallery purely because of that reason; I did not want to corrupt my 'virgin' mind with 'the way things are' designs. I built a lot of weird stuff, some worked, some didn't, but with every build experiment my knowledge increased.

I spent a lot of time developing 'fast build' lures. I like a pretty lure like everyone else I suspect, but the idea of spending 4 hours on a project only to lose it on a snag or a BIG fish was not acceptable. I wanted a lure that took no longer than 20 minutes from start to finish for general fishing. Also, this lure would have to swim every bit as good as a fully shaped lure and catch a lot of fish.

Obviously a lot of members were not impressed with this project, but that was OK, I totally understood their feelings on the subject. The solution was obviously a flat sided bait, round-over router bit to remove sharp corners. Everything done with templates, jigs and guide tools, finished with a minute on the flap-wheel to tidy up.

There are a lot of misconceptions about flat sided bodies; people say that they swim differently, some say they won't hunt. But, I find flat sided baits every bit as good as a shaped bait, only not as pretty. Works for me, I do not paint lures anyway, my baits are lucky if they get a coat of epoxy, usually just a coat of thin CA glue. Yes, they get waterlogged after a couple of toothy fish. I simply pop another on and dry out for the next trip with a fresh coat of CA glue. Works for me.

Dave

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7 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

Tarheelfishing88 - I enjoyed your post. Lots of truths in there, particularly the innovative possibilities of the new builder. In my early days, I refused to view the gallery purely because of that reason; I did not want to corrupt my 'virgin' mind with 'the way things are' designs. I built a lot of weird stuff, some worked, some didn't, but with every build experiment my knowledge increased.

I spent a lot of time developing 'fast build' lures. I like a pretty lure like everyone else I suspect, but the idea of spending 4 hours on a project only to lose it on a snag or a BIG fish was not acceptable. I wanted a lure that took no longer than 20 minutes from start to finish for general fishing. Also, this lure would have to swim every bit as good as a fully shaped lure and catch a lot of fish.

Obviously a lot of members were not impressed with this project, but that was OK, I totally understood their feelings on the subject. The solution was obviously a flat sided bait, round-over router bit to remove sharp corners. Everything done with templates, jigs and guide tools, finished with a minute on the flap-wheel to tidy up.

There are a lot of misconceptions about flat sided bodies; people say that they swim differently, some say they won't hunt. But, I find flat sided baits every bit as good as a shaped bait, only not as pretty. Works for me, I do not paint lures anyway, my baits are lucky if they get a coat of epoxy, usually just a coat of thin CA glue. Yes, they get waterlogged after a couple of toothy fish. I simply pop another on and dry out for the next trip with a fresh coat of CA glue. Works for me.

Dave

Works for me, too.

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:10 PM, Skeeter said:

Just got done reading this whole post.....lot  of  stuff and thoughts.  One person posted here in hard baits that they are here to start sharing everything that they have learned from the FB sites. Please start doing so sir. I am ready to learn. 

The Japanese did kick painting up a notch as far as looks. The lures are definitely pretty.  It's just too bad that the paint doesn't stay on on the bait for long.  I have baits that Tally and Coley made 9 years ago and they are stll holding up and look great.

Many folks are here to help.  I know that for a fact,  because many have helped me. A lot of work goes into what they have suceeded and failed on. Personally, I feel if folks want to be a true craftsman they need to do the work too.  I am always glad to help folks get over a hump or help with thoughts to get around a  sticky problem,  just not always give it away.  It's just business. There are a few on this site that shoot more paint in a week than the rest of us do in a year. Many here have worked 60 hour weeks and still put the time in their shops to figure out how to make something work. I guess an old saying says it best....  "How bad do you want it?"

Skeeter

Skeeter, I am very thankful that you just did not show me how to make a crank.   You encouraged me to try and wet my whistle.  I learned more about a crank bait than I ever thought possible.  Everyday it was trial and error.  you told me what should happen but never how to get there which made me do my homework.  From the daily questions, you knew I was experimenting and took me under your wing.  Anyone can watch a youtube and build a bait, but they never really understand what is going on...... I have been accused of always saying use the search feature...... not to be mean, but to make people actually research what was here and retain the information.  Thanks for the compliment on the baits........ between you and Blades, you brought me to a level I thought I would never see.   When it became more than a hobby, the fun was taken away.  For you "newbies", let your imagination run and try it.  We have all had our share of failure but the information from a failed bait is priceless.  This has been a GREAT thread and glad to see all the replies.  I am sure that I am way behind in the changes but the mechanics of a bait will always be the base.  wiggle... wobble... slow rise... tail twitch..... I learned so much.  Hunting has still eluded me and probably always will now.  Vodkaman had an interesting post on hunting, but I doubt I will ever get to that point to explore that.    Time for Tally to fish and less time in the shop lol

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1 hour ago, Vodkaman said:

Pretty much ALL types can hunt.

Dave

Here's how I got my cranks to hunt.  I found that putting moving ballast balls above the centerline of the lure (from line tie to rear hook hanger) works just about every time.   The bait on the left, with the ballast above the centerline, hunted, while the other two didn't.

 

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