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Troutfishing303

Table salt for baits?

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6 hours ago, mark poulson said:

Someone here posted here about how using Kosher salt didn't affect the color, so I tried it and found that it worked really well.  I don't grind it, I just make sure there are no big clumps, and I stir it right before I pour, to be sure the salt is in suspension.

Nice, I'll try Kosher salt out before I go buy a 50lb bag of glass bead media (I'm still thinking about glass bead media though).  Thanks @mark poulson

46 minutes ago, Travis said:

A few things going on in regards to light transmission and suspension of salt.  

First all these salts are the same as in NaCl.  Where they differ is  purity/additives.   Salt by it very nature is problematic in that it picks up water.    NaCl is used to calibrate some instruments that measure water uptake based on its very well studied water adsorption.  So unless you store your salt properly and dry it you are adding some water to your plastic during the heating process.  Adding some cloudiness to the end product if not all removed (not a big issue as often gets boiled off during heating).  Additionally to counteract salts water loving tendencies manufactures place anti caking agents in it to avoid it turning into a brick (and iodized typically). So you have impurities playing a role in regards light transmission.  Other issues that cause cloudiness are result of tackling the suspension issue..  

The salt crystal shape plays a role in suspension.  Table salt and others are cubodial.  The shape results in crystals that don't suspend readily.  So guys grind it to make the particles smaller but in doing so exponentially increase the surface area and further cause issues with transparency (lack of).    Sort of like  fill a glass with ice and pour a margarita mix over it versus putting that same ratio in your blender.  You also are adding defects in the crystal in the process.  Think of safety glass: pre and after hitting it with a hammer.  

Kosher, Maldon, and other salts prized by chefs are different in shape.  Kosher typically is forced into a flat shape under pressure to form flakes.  So take two cubes the same size/mass.  Take the second cube and compress it flat.  Drop them in a liquid guess which one hits the bottom first.  The shapes vary in regards to displacement.   The flat shape will displace more plastic and will sink slower than the cube and is the reason Kosher salts suspend better in comparison to table (cubodial) salt.  Cargill uses a process called Alberger process to make some of their salts.  It results in concaved plate/flake.  These salts Kosher, maldon, the Cargill select products are typically larger particle size to boot so often get the best of both worlds... larger crystals (less defects and less surface area) with a shape  but do to the shape suspend better than cubes.  Additionally they often don't have anticaking agents.

 

 

@TravisThanks for that explanation!  I had a lot of questions in my head about Kosher salt and you hit the nail on the head on all of them.  That flat surface area makes a lot of sense and a huge difference in everything.  Plus the purity.  I like it!  Thanks again.

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Glass beads can be a very satisfactory way to go also.  Plenty of threads here on the subject.

You get increased clarity with them,  no storage issues,  and a bait that is much stronger.  It can damage and injector but from most accounts besides replacing an o-ring good go go for years.  I forget who had a video (That Guy Skimpy?) comparing salt bait and glass bead bait durability.   The glass bead senko will stretch some and doesn't break near as easy as a salt bait.

 

 

Edited by Travis

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@Travis That was exactly what I was looking for!  Excellent info there.  I wonder if the larger grit GBM (glass bead media) will be more clearer than the smaller grit since there would be less media per square millimeter in the bait...It sucks how it scratches your injectors though.  That's crazy how glass can scratch aluminum that badly. 

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I wanted to experiment with Kosher Salt today but I couldn't find any without the anti-caking additive.  Morton Coarse Kosher Salt contains that additive.  I went to three different stores today and couldn't find any pure kosher salt. :blink:

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Personally I don't get too hung up on the anti caking agents.  Griding/flouring salt caused much more issues in regards to dulling the baits.   I believe the Kosher salt I used was Diamond Crystal Kosher that I ended up  getting at a health food place.  They had a few others but I was only trying the Kosher to see how it differs from the usual salts I had used in the past.  Not worth paying more from my experience.

The glass beads will give the clearest baits.  I would stick with typical no 8 (70 to 100) bead.  If you can find small sample packs of 7 or 6 to try out.  Just make sure getting bead and not abrasive.

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2 hours ago, Travis said:

Personally I don't get too hung up on the anti caking agents.  Griding/flouring salt caused much more issues in regards to dulling the baits.   I believe the Kosher salt I used was Diamond Crystal Kosher that I ended up  getting at a health food place.  They had a few others but I was only trying the Kosher to see how it differs from the usual salts I had used in the past.  Not worth paying more from my experience.

The glass beads will give the clearest baits.  I would stick with typical no 8 (70 to 100) bead.  If you can find small sample packs of 7 or 6 to try out.  Just make sure getting bead and not abrasive.

@Travis Glass beads sounds like the best one.  It sucks how it can ruin your injectors and possibly other equipment.  I will still look into the beads though.

 

2 hours ago, Bass-Boys said:

is having the clearest bait for the fish or the fisherman ?

@Bass-Boys  It's for both.  The fish probably don't care whether it's opaque, clear, or super clear.  Making cool looking baits gives fishermen confidence which I think plays a huge part in being successful at fishing soft plastics. 

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On 7/16/2019 at 9:20 PM, Travis said:

A few things going on in regards to light transmission and suspension of salt.  

First all these salts are the same as in NaCl.  Where they differ is  purity/additives.   Salt by it very nature is problematic in that it picks up water.    NaCl is used to calibrate some instruments that measure water uptake based on its very well studied water adsorption.  So unless you store your salt properly and dry it you are adding some water to your plastic during the heating process.  Adding some cloudiness to the end product if not all removed (not a big issue as often gets boiled off during heating).  Additionally to counteract salts water loving tendencies manufactures place anti caking agents in it to avoid it turning into a brick (and iodized typically). So you have impurities playing a role in regards light transmission.  Other issues that cause cloudiness are result of tackling the suspension issue..  

The salt crystal shape plays a role in suspension.  Table salt and others are cubodial.  The shape results in crystals that don't suspend readily.  So guys grind it to make the particles smaller but in doing so exponentially increase the surface area and further cause issues with transparency (lack of).    Sort of like  fill a glass with ice and pour a margarita mix over it versus putting that same ratio in your blender.  You also are adding defects in the crystal in the process.  Think of safety glass: pre and after hitting it with a hammer.  

Kosher, Maldon, and other salts prized by chefs are different in shape.  Kosher typically is forced into a flat shape under pressure to form flakes.  So take two cubes the same size/mass.  Take the second cube and compress it flat.  Drop them in a liquid guess which one hits the bottom first.  The shapes vary in regards to displacement.   The flat shape will displace more plastic and will sink slower than the cube and is the reason Kosher salts suspend better in comparison to table (cubodial) salt.  Cargill uses a process called Alberger process to make some of their salts.  It results in concaved plate/flake.  These salts Kosher, maldon, the Cargill select products are typically larger particle size to boot so often get the best of both worlds... larger crystals (less defects and less surface area) with a shape  but do to the shape suspend better than cubes.  Additionally they often don't have anticaking agents.

 

 

This should be a sticky at the top of the Soft Baits Forum.  So much great information.  Thank you Travis.

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On 7/14/2019 at 10:41 PM, Troutfishing303 said:

@Baitjunkys what do you use to make your baits sink like a Senko if you don't mind me asking.  I have both floating and sinking formula plastisol.  The sinking formula doesn't sink fast like a Senko so I think an additive like salt or glass beads will be necessary.

Sorry I totally missed this, I use Suspendasol from Spike it, Aka lureworks.. Its not super great in the nuker, I wish they would put out a new microwave version of it tho. I had suggested to some guys mix it 50/50 with std plastisol and said it worked great

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