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CoreyH

cloudiness when using super glue

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I've still been going back and forth a little about continuing to use super glue or going to an epoxy for gluing in line ties, hook hangers, and bills.  One issue I'm having that is making me think I'll go the epoxy route is that I'm constantly getting varying degrees of cloudiness on my lexan bills from using the super glue.  I understand that this is due to a reaction between the plastic bill and the superglue which causes a vapor and the vapor is what causes the cloudiness...at least that's my understanding.  For those that do use superglue for installation of the bill, is there a way to prevent the cloudiness effect?

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The best advice I can give you is look at the advantages and disadvantages between epoxy and super glue then ask yourself why you use supper glue?

if you have not at least tried epoxy yet go buy a small tube and try it. See how you like working with it,  test the strength difference, and decide if you have a better end product 

 

 

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Yes, I know what you are experiencing. The effect does not bother me as I am not paint finishing lures, but still, I want to avoid this result.

I insert the lip and just touch the jaw of the lip with a drop of CA glue. Capillary action draws the glue into the joint and the cloudiness does not happen. CA joints is all about capillary action. Try it.

Dave

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https://www.permabond.com/2015/04/29/bonding-polycarbonate-industrial-adhesive/

Personally I'd steer clear of ca clue on polycarbonate.  The vibration of a lure lip, exposure to water and possibility of superglue to even damage the polycarbonate lead me to use two part epoxy to secure my lips. Epoxy also has much better gap filling properties, if the lip slot isn't perfectly cut in the wood.

On my really big lures, I'll even pin the lip in place, or use a screw to ensure it stays put.  Many cheaper made crankbait lips come right out after repeated use. Like Hillbilly said, look at the advantages and disadvantages and see what works best for you.

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Looks like I'll start using epoxy.  I was leaning that way to begin with, mainly because of the longer working time to make sure the bill is straight.  I would try what Dave suggested, but I'm just not sure how much confidence I would have by only securing the bill with a drop of glue on each side.  Most likely it would be fine, but I would struggle with feeling good about it not coming loose.  I've heard guys talk about D2T and Bob Smith slow cure.  Is one better than the other or just personal preference?

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Corey - I wet the slot first with CA glue. I don't just apply a single drop at the jaw, I continue until the joint is full, allowing time between applications. It usually only requires two drops per side.

Eastman - if I was in a production/selling situation, I would definitely go for epoxy fixing. But, everything I do is prototype and personal use. I will add that I have never had a lip failure, but qualify this with the statement that my lures are never endurance tested. Some have been used many years after construction with no problem.

If selling, I would definitely go with a majority opinion, but for prototyping, CA is wonderful :)

Dave

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I believe that most of the epoxy talk like D2T and BSI (Bob smith industries) slow cure is for the finishing of the bait, and not so much about the lip or line ties.  For that type of installation, I believe you could go for almost any type of 2 part 5 min epoxy.  I'm sure there are stronger/weaker ones, I use a west systems epoxy that cures relatively quick (10 min or so).  I use a much slower cure epoxy for the final clear coat, like envirotex lite.  

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I’m REALLY lazy.  I use Rod Bond paste epoxy to install all hardware.  It fills lip gaps, stays where I put it, doesn’t run, and let’s me tweak the position of a lip for more than an hour if needed.  Install all the hardware and hang the baits up.  Display a little patience.  They will be ready to topcoat tomorrow.

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Vodkaman - I totally agree.  There is a time and place for all glues!  When I'm prototyping a new design, or just making something for myself, CA is great, and it can work well if applied correctly like you outlined.  Once I dial in a design, I usually then factor in a wire-thru design (my preference), and sealing the wood, better paint jobs, more layers of epoxy, stuff like that.

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I use a 4 hr (home hardware brand)two part epoxy It’s cheap and strong. I  have lots of work time to assemble multiple lures and I can go back and make fine adjustments once the batch is assembled 

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3 minutes ago, Vodkaman said:

So many solutions. Lips coming loose is a rare problem except for mass produced lures!

Dave

Give the lure to me and I will break it :lolhuh:

it may not be directly from a fish but highly possible my clumsy size 13 boot finds the lure. I am hard on gear

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Haha, I thought the same thing Hillbilly, I'm hard on equipment.  Lots of rocks here in the Winnipeg river, and big fish (and big fisherman).  If any rod/reel/line/lure has a weak spot, I'll find it.   I could fill a tackle box of broken lures that didn't hold up to the rigors of a fishing guides life.

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1 minute ago, eastman03 said:

Haha, I thought the same thing Hillbilly, I'm hard on equipment.  Lots of rocks here in the Winnipeg river, and big fish (and big fisherman).  If any rod/reel/line/lure has a weak spot, I'll find it.   I could fill a tackle box of broken lures that didn't hold up to the rigors of a fishing guides life.

Maybe it’s a Canadian thing :lolhuh:

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Thanks for the clarification.  I just assumed the D2T and BSI were what people were using for installing hardware and lips.  I'm planning on trying the KBS Diamond Clear to dip and hang for my topcoat, so I won't need the D2T or BSI for that.

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You bet Corey!  It gets confusing with all the options and acronyms.  They very well might be using D2T or BSI for lips/line ties, because both of those companies also make 5 min epoxy and slow cure epoxy formulas.  

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I hook a lure up when I arrive at the bait fishing competition pond. I throw about 20 or so times, and pull in fish that will never be captured in the 4 hour competition. The locals that are around are astounded at my success. They have never used a lure in their lives.

Of course, lures are not permitted in the competition, but it does present a really good testing arena. This bawal fish is 3.5Kg, close to 8Lbs.

The pond record is 12,5Lbs, held by me with bait, in a competition.

Dave

 

 

Edited by Vodkaman
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I use epoxy after watching an episode from the "engineered angler" on youtube. He's quite thorough, and well, he's an engineer. He makes baits and sometimes tests things. he found that epoxy has greater holding power than super glue. It was good enough for me.

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I saw that video too. Epoxy definitely had much better holding strength but I believe he said that for fish like bass, the super glue had more than enough holding strength as well. Either way, I’m going to start using epoxy for the longer working time for adjusting lip position, line tie, and hook hangers and also to completely prevent the cloudiness issue that happens with super glue. 

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I don't know what happened in my previous post. Pretty sure I wrote something relevant and linked the video. Can't remember my point now.

Mods - delete if you think necessary. Apologies all :)

Dave

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