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Fern

Help!!! Why are my tubes tearing open like this?!? so frustrating.

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I started making tubes about 2-3 weeks ago and I’ve got the collection now. Today I started making my jig heads and completing the outfit however some of my tubes are splitting open when after the jigs have been in for an hour or so. I am using dead on plastix “tube/craw” blend and using Lurecraft’s “4 inch tube” mold for the tubes and do-it molds ultra minnow mold. I typically get my tubes from ultralight heavyweights and I’ve purchased their 4 inch/ 1 ounce tubes and I’ve matched mine up with theirs and size, weight is pretty much spot on so I know these jig heads aren’t “too big” for these tubes. There’s has got to be something else going on. 

They have also split using the 3/4 ounce jig heads and thank god none have split using the 1/2 ounce jig head. This isnt happening to all my jigs, just a select few. I’ve j specter the jigs that have broke and I don’t see anything that would indicate that it was weak where it broke.

Can anyone help me figure this one out?

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Edited by Fern

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For the larger sizes, I think you will have to try a different plastic. MF makes an easy stretch formula. For durability, don’t use any salt and you could try some of do it’s sinking additive. It will add some durability (aka stretch)  to the plastic you’re using now but will also change the colors some. If you can deal with that it’s worth a try. Don’t use it and softener together as it will tend to over soften your baits. You may try just adding some softener to what you have. You will have to experiment some. By the way, nice looking tube baits! They’ll catchem.

Edited by Apdriver

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5 minutes ago, Apdriver said:

For the larger sizes, I think you will have to try a different plastic. MF makes an easy stretch formula. For durability, don’t use any salt and you could try some of do it’s sinking additive. It will add some durability (aka stretch)  to the plastic you’re using now but will also change the colors some. If you can deal with that it’s worth a try. Don’t use it and softener together as it will tend to over soften your baits. You may try just adding some softener to what you have. You will have to experiment some. By the way, nice looking tube baits! They’ll catchem.

Thank you! you seem to always have the answers and I am truly appreciative of your willingness to help. Any specific MF plastisol that you would get for tubes? Is dead on plastix known for lack of stretch? 

 

And thank you for the bait compliment. They have been a hit with my local community except these 1ounce keep tearing and I want to be able to distribute them out but have put a hold on the larger sizes due to this issue to I hope this helps. 

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10 minutes ago, Apdriver said:

For the larger sizes, I think you will have to try a different plastic. MF makes an easy stretch formula. For durability, don’t use any salt and you could try some of do it’s sinking additive. It will add some durability (aka stretch)  to the plastic you’re using now but will also change the colors some. If you can deal with that it’s worth a try. Don’t use it and softener together as it will tend to over soften your baits. You may try just adding some softener to what you have. You will have to experiment some. By the way, nice looking tube baits! They’ll catchem.

Can you link me to the east stretch formula. I was looking on their site but don't seem to find it. 

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To me it looks like every one of those baits tore at the seam between colors.  If that is the case I'd suspect a "cold bond" between the two different colors.... meaning your plastic was too cold when you made the baits and didn't "fuse" together.  I'll pour a color into a mold - close it them shoot another color.  If i wait too long to shoot it - it will bond - but you can pull the sections apart if you really try.

Hope this makes sense... might wanna just run a few more baits and make sure you keep the plastic hot.

Also - that head probably isn't helping you being so wide at the top.  I did some testing on stretch ratio for some bait I made with an insert... 3-1 seemed to be a good average without tearing the baits..... how big in diameter is the core our using for the tubes?  If its less than 1/3 the "diameter" of that head you might need a bigger core.

  J.

 

Edited by SlowFISH
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Those are some nice tubes you poured there. Slowfish replied as I’m typing and said exactly what I was going to. Looks like you’re not getting a solid bond due to low plastic temp.  Essentially you’re asking two very thin layers of unbounded plastic to hold up to that big lead head distorting it.  I doubt that it’s the brand of plastic.

Shoot a few in one color at a higher temp. Let them sit overnight then see what happens when inserting the jig with worm oil on it. If that helps move back to the two colors and try the same. Please let us know how it goes I’m intrigued. 

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Hmmm. I see the separation between colors. I thought you probably needed a more durable plastic because of the large head. I’m not a tube guy but do some laminates and they will separate if you put enough pressure on them. I know some tubes are shot. Some are dipped. What process do you make your tubes?

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Personal preference varies but let them set overnight then test things out. DOP is what I use and I have noticed they firm up pretty good by the next day. I shoot the AI double dipper so can dip the rod then shoot a cover color. Never had a problem using do it tube jigs. 

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7 hours ago, Apdriver said:

https://www.pouryourownworms.com/Bounce-Easy-Stretch-Plastic_c122.htm
 

Fern, also I’m pretty sure you are already doing this, but lubricate your head good with worm oil before you push it in the tube. The least you torture the plastic the better off you will be and the more it will withstand the stretch.

Thank you for the link and yes, as you mentioned I lubricate the jig head with worm oil before sliding it in. I will give the plastic you linked a try. thanks again. 

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5 hours ago, SlowFISH said:

To me it looks like every one of those baits tore at the seam between colors.  If that is the case I'd suspect a "cold bond" between the two different colors.... meaning your plastic was too cold when you made the baits and didn't "fuse" together.  I'll pour a color into a mold - close it them shoot another color.  If i wait too long to shoot it - it will bond - but you can pull the sections apart if you really try.

Hope this makes sense... might wanna just run a few more baits and make sure you keep the plastic hot.

Also - that head probably isn't helping you being so wide at the top.  I did some testing on stretch ratio for some bait I made with an insert... 3-1 seemed to be a good average without tearing the baits..... how big in diameter is the core our using for the tubes?  If its less than 1/3 the "diameter" of that head you might need a bigger core.

  J.

 

I use a dual injector to inject two colors in at the same time and try to keep both plastics at the same tempt, however I have attached a picture of a tube that is a one color injection that also tore. some tear from the sides, some tear from the belly, some tear from the top. I Hope its just a stretch issue and that a different plastic type with more stretch will fix this issue. Though I do understand what you are saying and I even tried using a hot plate to keep my molds hot, same with using a heat gun to blow in the mold to keep the plastic inside hot when I do 3 color pours. Aside from the possibility of it being a stretch issue, I think maybe it could be air pockets inside the tube that I cant see from the outside causing it to be weak in that area. 

In regards to the head, I use lures from two companies "ultra light heavy weights & hooked up baits" They both sell 4 inch tubes the same as mine and they rig them with 1 ounce minnow tube heads like the ones i am using. I have put theirs and mine side to side and they are identical from size, weight, length and width so I figure if they can put 1 ounce minnow jigs into the 4 inch tubes, I shouldn't have a problem. 

I'll have to measure the diameter of the tube rod and get back to you on that. 

Thank you very much for your input and your time. Hopefully I can figure this out cuz I have a ton of people who want some but I wont sell a defective product. 

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5 hours ago, Fishermanbt said:

Those are some nice tubes you poured there. Slowfish replied as I’m typing and said exactly what I was going to. Looks like you’re not getting a solid bond due to low plastic temp.  Essentially you’re asking two very thin layers of unbounded plastic to hold up to that big lead head distorting it.  I doubt that it’s the brand of plastic.

Shoot a few in one color at a higher temp. Let them sit overnight then see what happens when inserting the jig with worm oil on it. If that helps move back to the two colors and try the same. Please let us know how it goes I’m intrigued. 

I am having the same problem with single color pours. I even double dip my tubes in clear once they are cured for added durability and its still tearing. maybe its the added thickness from the clear that is not allowing for stretch? Also when I pour two colors I use a dual injector and make sure both plastics are about the same temp before filling the injector. I even go as far as keeping the mold on a griddle and heating the inside with a heat gun at the highest temp while I prep the plastic. I am stumped. I have also tried letting these baits sit for up to a week before adding a jig head and I will still find some that are ripped. out of like 100 that i made, id say about 20 of them tore like this while the others seem to be holding up well. 

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3 hours ago, Dink Master said:

How long did you let your tubes cure?

some of these tubes have been sitting for up to a week before I have added a tube jig, however I dont really hang them up to "cure" i just coat them in worm oil and place them in my soft plastic box ensuring they remain straight. 

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2 hours ago, Fishermanbt said:

Personal preference varies but let them set overnight then test things out. DOP is what I use and I have noticed they firm up pretty good by the next day. I shoot the AI double dipper so can dip the rod then shoot a cover color. Never had a problem using do it tube jigs. 

I have let some of these sit up to a week before putting a minnow jig head in and I am still having the problem. I currently use the lure craft 4 inch tube mold ( https://www.lurecraft.com/4-Tube-Mold-5-Cav-2-Pc-Alum-Injection/productinfo/5XLU-183/ ) so maybe the rod diameter has something to do with it? I have ordered 2 double dip 4 inch molds from angling Ai and they should have been here yesterday but I am still waiting on them, I am hoping that I have better luck with them. Currently my process involves dipping the rods, inserting them back in the mold, keeping the mold nice and hot on an electric griddle and using a heat gun to keep the plastic runny inside for a good bond. If I do two colors I use a dual injector but I always do a final dip in clear plastisol to keep the eyes in place so its adding thickness too. 

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4 hours ago, Apdriver said:

Hmmm. I see the separation between colors. I thought you probably needed a more durable plastic because of the large head. I’m not a tube guy but do some laminates and they will separate if you put enough pressure on them. I know some tubes are shot. Some are dipped. What process do you make your tubes?

I dip the rods in the whatever color I will use for the internal color and then place the rods back in the mold and place the mold on an electric griddle to keep it hot. while the plastic heats up I use a heat gun to blow hot air into the mold to help the plastic on the rod stay hot/sticky. ONce the outer color is ready I use a dual injector to inject dual colors making sure that both plastics are the same temp unless I use a single color which have also torn as well. once the colors have sat out a while I add eyes and dip in clear plastisol to protect the eyes and then I place them in my tackle box with worm oil .   

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Fern it sounds like your process is solid. Possibly insert diameter for sure. The less you stretch the cured plastisol, the better chance it won’t split. That and if you make it more durable as in a different formula plastic. I think you will solve this with a bit of experimentation. I’m digging your product.

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50 minutes ago, Apdriver said:

Fern it sounds like your process is solid. Possibly insert diameter for sure. The less you stretch the cured plastisol, the better chance it won’t split. That and if you make it more durable as in a different formula plastic. I think you will solve this with a bit of experimentation. I’m digging your product.

I am really hoping this new plastic formula will do the trick. Another thing that I think might be causing this is air bubbles in the plastic that maybe is making it weak where it is splitting. maybe getting a vacuum chamber to help reduce the chances of air pockets. I will keep you all posted and I will also post once I get my angling AI molds as another user mentioned that hes had no issues with splitting. I am using lurecrafts mold currently and dont know the diameter of the rod but I will measure when I am home in the morning.

Thanks again! 

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10 minutes ago, 21xdc said:

Awesome tubes! :worship: I think changing plastics will solve the issue. 

Thank you! I will try a combination of things to include getting the super stretch plastisol that Apdriver suggested (already purchased) as well as getting a vaccumm chamber to help de-gas the plastisol. 

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It seems like 90% of all plastic problems come down to control of the plastic temperature at the time of injection (that is true of all types of plastic injection...not just baits!)

Make sure you plastic gets to 350 degrees measure by a digital thermometer (NOT an IR!). A good thermometer to use is a meat thermometer but make sure you get one that reads to over 350 degrees! It should state its maximum temp on the package. If you don't get all of the plastic to 350 degrees it does not completely "change state" causing all sorts of issues!

I wonder if the problem is as simple as the head you are using is too big? If you look at the Do-it molds for tubes they are significantly smaller than that bait.

I use model #473218

https://barlowstackle.com/Do-It-Tapered-Tube-Skirt-Jig-Molds-P209/

I would suggest you go to the store and buy a pack of standard tube jig heads and see if the problem goes away! If you have a Fleet Farm near you they carry them in a wide assortment.

Walmart also has them (at least in my area) https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eagle-Claw-Lazer-Sharp-Tube-Grub-Jig-Head-Bronze-1-4-Oz-BTH14/544205456

The MF tough plastic would also help.

Andy

 

 

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8 hours ago, DaBehr said:

It seems like 90% of all plastic problems come down to control of the plastic temperature at the time of injection (that is true of all types of plastic injection...not just baits!)

Make sure you plastic gets to 350 degrees measure by a digital thermometer (NOT an IR!). A good thermometer to use is a meat thermometer but make sure you get one that reads to over 350 degrees! It should state its maximum temp on the package. If you don't get all of the plastic to 350 degrees it does not completely "change state" causing all sorts of issues!

I wonder if the problem is as simple as the head you are using is too big? If you look at the Do-it molds for tubes they are significantly smaller than that bait.

I use model #473218

https://barlowstackle.com/Do-It-Tapered-Tube-Skirt-Jig-Molds-P209/

I would suggest you go to the store and buy a pack of standard tube jig heads and see if the problem goes away! If you have a Fleet Farm near you they carry them in a wide assortment.

Walmart also has them (at least in my area) https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eagle-Claw-Lazer-Sharp-Tube-Grub-Jig-Head-Bronze-1-4-Oz-BTH14/544205456

The MF tough plastic would also help.

Andy

 

 

Thank you for your input. While I agree that the tube head might be a little big for the tubes, I just cant wrap my head around how other people are doing it just fine. as I mentioned before, I use to get my jigs from ultralight heavyweights (hopefully user Jgzee1 can provide some input as he owns ultralight) and they use the 1 ounce minnow head on the same size tube as I do. side to side comparison they are identical. Also, this is not happening to all of my jigs only a handful from each batch but the fact that I dont have quality control is bothering me. I have attached a picture of two of my jigs, one of which that has withstood the 1 ounce jig head for over a week, the other which ripped after 2 days of just sitting there and in the middle is one of the ultralight jigs for comparison. @Jgzee1 can you help me out? what am I doing wrong? is it my choice of plastisol (dead on plastix) is it micro bubbles? Why do some of my jigs tear liek this, both solid color pours and dual color pours. If you can provide some insight to how you make it work, I would really appreciate it. 

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you are using Dead on Plastix Tube/Craw -  White or Black  Bucket?

what colorant  are you using? It looks like you use a lot colorant in your mix.

The pink tube look lighter on the colorant did it tear? Try making a clear (no colorant) tube.

What is your process for mixing and heating your plastisol?

 

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16 minutes ago, Dink Master said:

you are using Dead on Plastix Tube/Craw -  White or Black  Bucket?

what colorant  are you using? It looks like you use a lot colorant in your mix.

The pink tube look lighter on the colorant did it tear? Try making a clear (no colorant) tube.

What is your process for mixing and heating your plastisol?

 

I am using the black bucket (tube/craw) and I am using dead on plastix colorants as well. I add about anywhere between 12-24 drops of colorant into 1 cup of plastisol to get it to the opaque-ness that I want. The pink tube in the picture was just one of the ones the didnt tear from that pink batch but some pink ones def tore. I usually make a batch of 20 of each pattern that I make and out of those twenty, 3 to 5 of them tear and the rest are ok.

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