Figured out thru wire!

[JD_mudbug]

Maybe something thinner than popsicle sticks would work, like wooden beverage stirrers?

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Count-Coffee-Beverage-Stirrers/dp/B001FVPAOE?th=1

 

[exx1976]

IDK.  But since these are 1/16" wide, which is the same thickness as my slot, I ordered some.  If nothing else, they'll save me from having to cut veneers. 

[bogdan_alex]

I personally try to stay away as much as I can from through-wire because it's time consuming. Only use it for small lures or very light materials. I make my own hook hangers from stainless steel wire and are strong as hell. 

When I do use trough-wire I personally fill the gap with thin superglue with ACTIVATOR for the first "layers" to control the hardening process and not let the glue drip! 

For now I used gel superglue as I was reaching the surface but the problem is it's pretty hard to sand so I will try to mix it with some baking powder or cenospheres for the next tests.

 

[exx1976]

1 hour ago, bogdan_alex said:

I personally try to stay away as much as I can from through-wire because it's time consuming. Only use it for small lures or very light materials. I make my own hook hangers from stainless steel wire and are strong as hell. 

When I do use trough-wire I personally fill the gap with thin superglue with ACTIVATOR for the first "layers" to control the hardening process and not let the glue drip! 

For now I used gel superglue as I was reaching the surface but the problem is it's pretty hard to sand so I will try to mix it with some baking powder or cenospheres for the next tests.

 

The purpose of the baking soda is that it acts as an activator.  You also cannot use gel superglue with it, it has to be the super super thin stuff that literally flows like water.  There is no "mix it with baking soda", you'll end up with a rock faster than you can blink.

The baking soda trick is to fill the slot (partway, depending on depth) with baking soda, then drip the THIN superglue onto it.  It has to be the thin stuff so it can soak into it at least a little before it kicks.  The gel stuff won't soak in, and will harden right on the surface, so you'll wind up with layers of baking soda, then superglue, then baking soda, then superglue.  Not structurally sound at all.

If ease of sanding is your goal, baking soda and superglue is not any easier to sand.

Edited January 31, 2021 by exx1976

[exx1976]

The 404 appears to have been the hot ticket.

Still have a couple things to sort out with my application method, but this attempt came out far better than I could have anticipated.  I'm quite pleased.

 

 

This is most assuredly FAR more time consuming than screw eyes.  I plan to charge accordingly. 

[JD_mudbug]

Looks goods.  Wire-through is definitely worth a good upcharge.

If you hold one end of the wood drink stirrer down with an index finger, a few wipes down one of the faces with a piece of sandpaper will make them fit into a 1/16th slot. It takes only a few seconds. I have used them on a few baits to fill belly slots. I also use them on lip slots in test baits to try thinner lip material.

 

[bogdan_alex]

4 hours ago, exx1976 said:

The purpose of the baking soda is that it acts as an activator.  You also cannot use gel superglue with it, it has to be the super super thin stuff that literally flows like water.  There is no "mix it with baking soda", you'll end up with a rock faster than you can blink.

The baking soda trick is to fill the slot (partway, depending on depth) with baking soda, then drip the THIN superglue onto it.  It has to be the thin stuff so it can soak into it at least a little before it kicks.  The gel stuff won't soak in, and will harden right on the surface, so you'll wind up with layers of baking soda, then superglue, then baking soda, then superglue.  Not structurally sound at all.

If ease of sanding is your goal, baking soda and superglue is not any easier to sand.

Thanks! Didn't know the baking soda serves as an activator. Then I'll go with the cenospheres. The gel superglue I use has a decent pot life when mixed in large amount (larger than a thin layer ) so if I use it with something that does not act like an activator should be fine. The silicates from cenospheres must make it a bit more sandable friendly at least in theory. I'll keep you posted with the results.

[mark poulson]

I use a fine wood rasp and a straight file to take down my filler to lure level.  I have a lot more  control because they are thin and flat,  and I don't damage the hook hangers.

[exx1976]

2 hours ago, mark poulson said:

I use a fine wood rasp and a straight file to take down my filler to lure level.  I have a lot more  control because they are thin and flat,  and I don't damage the hook hangers.

Out of curiosity, how is the speed with using that method?  I mean, I'm not like "assembly line" style over here, but..  If a belt sander takes me 1-2 minutes, I'm sure I'll get better at it (read: damage less stuff) over time.  If the method you mention doesn't take much more time, that would certainly be a safer route to go.  If it takes 2-3x as long though...  I'd have to think about it some.

[Outlaw4]

19 hours ago, exx1976 said:

The 404 appears to have been the hot ticket.

Still have a couple things to sort out with my application method, but this attempt came out far better than I could have anticipated.  I'm quite pleased.

 

 

This is most assuredly FAR more time consuming than screw eyes.  I plan to charge accordingly. 

you should also maybe look also at the 406. I personally have not used but i think its designed application might suit lure building better than 404. I use 404 as i have alot of it from other marine projects. There are a couple others in the 400 line id like to try when i get a chance. 

Keep up the pursuit of perfection. I do the same in my lures. At this time I only make for myself and a few friends but was also driven by a desire for high quality i was not able to buy.

[exx1976]

50 minutes ago, Outlaw4 said:

you should also maybe look also at the 406. I personally have not used but i think its designed application might suit lure building better than 404. I use 404 as i have alot of it from other marine projects. There are a couple others in the 400 line id like to try when i get a chance. 

Keep up the pursuit of perfection. I do the same in my lures. At this time I only make for myself and a few friends but was also driven by a desire for high quality i was not able to buy.

At some point in the future I may do that, but with the quantity of this stuff that is in a 15 oz can, I should be good for a bit. 

[mark poulson]

On 1/31/2021 at 3:11 PM, exx1976 said:

Out of curiosity, how is the speed with using that method?  I mean, I'm not like "assembly line" style over here, but..  If a belt sander takes me 1-2 minutes, I'm sure I'll get better at it (read: damage less stuff) over time.  If the method you mention doesn't take much more time, that would certainly be a safer route to go.  If it takes 2-3x as long though...  I'd have to think about it some.

Between a rasp, a file, and some sandpaper, I can usually a lure smoothed and ready to paint in a minute or less.

 

[Outlaw4]

8 hours ago, mark poulson said:

Between a rasp, a file, and some sandpaper, I can usually a lure smoothed and ready to paint in a minute or less.

 

if you guys really want to move material fast...and accurately...look up a Nitto Kohki belt sander (handheld). This is a professional grade finger sander but there are many cheaper options. If you are into fabrication of anything this is a great home / professional shop tool. 

[Big Epp]

I bet a 1" belt sander would work really well for cleaning up the wire slot too.  I've been using a rasp and sandpaper, and it doesn't take too long as long as I don't make too much of a mess.  I love the idea of using masking tape along the slot prior to filling.  That would reduce cleanup considerably!  (Oh the little golden nuggets in these conversations!)

@Hillbilly voodoo mentioned overbuilding baits... I made this little popper the other day.  It's probably between 2.5 and 3" with a .062 through wire.  I was going to use it as a test for the wood shim method, but forgot to cut a shim.  The wire is held in with epoxy and I used superglue & baking soda to fill any voids.  Internally the wire loops are wrapped with thread and superglued together.  I haven't clear coated it yet (gotta build the lure turner first), but I'll clear coat it with E-Tex lite.  This thing is a little tank!

Now I'll take it out to the pond (in 3 or 4 months) and start slamming 1.5lb bass...

Edited February 2, 2021 by Big Epp
Finished thought.

[exx1976]

Wow, that little finger sander is pricey!  Pneumatic, too. I don't have any air tools, so I'd also need a compressor. *sigh*

 

@Big Epp - cleaning up the wire slot? How do you mean? 

[Big Epp]

For "cleaning up the wire slot" I was referring to smoothing out any excess epoxy, superglue/baking soda, or wood shim after the wire slot is filled.  With a 4" belt sander it's really easy to eat hook hangers, but a 1" belt might fit between them much more nicely, thus avoiding eaten wire.

[eastman03]

Yea, I use a small palm sander to do most of the work.  But, with practice, you will be able to get it to the point where you only need minimal sanding overall.  I think a 1" belt sander would be amazing. That might be my next purchase, or that tiny hand belt sander.  I'll use a scalpel to wittle off anything large around the hook hangers if there is.  Then a quick sand with my palm sander.  Then a bit of hand sanding/light filling to finish.  

I'll say this too, with bondo or epoxy, sometimes it's tricky to sand just the epoxy down.  The filler is often much harder than the wood, so it can be tricky to work the filler down, without changing the shape of the wood too much.  Again, do it a few times and it gets pretty easy.    If you are using epoxy as a base coat before paint, it fills in and hides alot of little tiny imperfections, and still leaves you with a perfectly smooth base for painting.  

[exx1976]

2 hours ago, Big Epp said:

For "cleaning up the wire slot" I was referring to smoothing out any excess epoxy, superglue/baking soda, or wood shim after the wire slot is filled.  With a 4" belt sander it's really easy to eat hook hangers, but a 1" belt might fit between them much more nicely, thus avoiding eaten wire.

Ah, yes.  I was using a 4" bench sander.  You are correct, any type of "detail work" was challenging at best.

However, the speed of the bench sander was much slower than the 1" belt sander, so 180 grit didn't EAT wood like the 1" belt sander does.

I have some 240 and 320 grit belts now, but haven't had opportunity to try them out yet.  I'm hoping that minimizes the damages caused by any "mistakes" since material won't be removed so fast.

And yes, I've been using an x-acto knife to remove epoxy around hook hangers, and sanding the larger areas.  Still working on sorting it out, but I suspect most of the issues will be solved with practice.

Prior to any of that, though, I need to get that jig worked out for the slots.  Been busy with work and other house stuff the past several days.  Always a distraction, it seems...  I'm not in TOO much of a hurry anyway, still waiting on some feedback re: the last round of prototypes sent to my testers.  We'll see.

re: epoxy base coat, I really see no value in that aside from providing that flat surface for paint.  It greatly lengthens the time it takes to produce a bait since you have to wait for TWO layers of epoxy to fully cure( the base coat, then the top coat), and it doesn't do anything for the structural integrity of the bait that putting that same number of coats (base + top) on all as top coats would.  Further, shifting all the coats to the top protects the paint that much better, and as we've all agreed - catching fishermen is just as important as catching fish, so protecting the appearance of the lure should be every bit as important.  Lastly, the addition of an epoxy basecoat would be INCREDIBLY challenging without having the lip already set, and that is one part of my process I am as-yet unwilling to compromise on:  My lips are paint-free, so they are added and set AFTER paint.  If I had to include them due to an epoxy base coat, keeping them paint-free would be far more challenging (read: would add more time to the process, which I am trying to speed up, not lengthen). 

Edited February 3, 2021 by exx1976

[eastman03]

I like to saw the slot in the lure while it is still in block form.  My preferred tool is the Radial Arm Saw.  It makes this task super easy.  I'm sure a table saw wouldn't be too hard either.  I made a simple jig so I can repeat the same cut with the RAS and quickly line up the center and depth (and keep my fingers outta there).  It does allow me to also cut a slot, on a bait while it is formed to if necessary.  A flat sided bait makes that even easier.

It probably unlikely that most guys have a radial arm saw.  That is my other hobby, collecting vintage equipment from the 40's.

 

[Big Epp]

1 hour ago, eastman03 said:

It probably unlikely that most guys have a radial arm saw.  That is my other hobby, collecting vintage equipment from the 40's.

 

Right on!  Those things are beasts... A friend of mine gave me his when he moved, so I've been using that for anything I would typically use a miter saw for.  Would you mind posting a picture of the jig you made?  I cut some blanks today using the table saw at school, which was simple enough, but I'm always open to new ideas.  And agreed, way easier to cut while squared off.

@exx1976how do you attach your lips?  I'm really rough with lips still (practice, practice, practice), and still benefit from time to sand off blobs after attaching the lip.

[exx1976]

12 hours ago, eastman03 said:

I like to saw the slot in the lure while it is still in block form.  My preferred tool is the Radial Arm Saw.  It makes this task super easy.  I'm sure a table saw wouldn't be too hard either.  I made a simple jig so I can repeat the same cut with the RAS and quickly line up the center and depth (and keep my fingers outta there).  It does allow me to also cut a slot, on a bait while it is formed to if necessary.  A flat sided bait makes that even easier.

It probably unlikely that most guys have a radial arm saw.  That is my other hobby, collecting vintage equipment from the 40's.

 

A RAS or table saw wouldn't be able to do the lip slots in my baits.  Blades are too large, and wouldn't be able to make the internal contours necessary to avoid the hazards of the way I'm producing my lures.  That is to say, I may be overly complex, but for now, my convoluted method is getting it done.  LOL

I don't have a RAS yet, but I plan to get one.  Not just for this work, but for home improvement projects as well.

[exx1976]

11 hours ago, Big Epp said:

Right on!  Those things are beasts... A friend of mine gave me his when he moved, so I've been using that for anything I would typically use a miter saw for.  Would you mind posting a picture of the jig you made?  I cut some blanks today using the table saw at school, which was simple enough, but I'm always open to new ideas.  And agreed, way easier to cut while squared off.

@exx1976how do you attach your lips?  I'm really rough with lips still (practice, practice, practice), and still benefit from time to sand off blobs after attaching the lip.

I'm not sure that I'm the right person to be giving advice on lure assembly seeing as many people on here seem to have figured out much more expedient ways of doing things, but...

Lip is the last thing that gets installed in my lure before top coat.  I drill a few holes in the lip with a #44 drill bit, then I scuff up the lip with some 120, and then paint some epoxy on, being sure to fill those holes.  Jam it in the lip slot, make sure it's all nice and centered up, and then hang the lure by the line tie.  The excess epoxy runs down the side of the lures, so I come back down an hour or two later and brush it out so there's not a big glob of a drip.  Then when I do the topcoat, that little bit that was brushed out is covered by the top coat.  I've gotten better at it now, so that perhaps only 1 or 2 out of 8 needs brushed out.

Keep in mind that I'm using a non-standard lip material, so there are some other obstacles I've had to work around as well to get it all sorted.

[eastman03]

Here is a video from solar baits. He shows pretty much exactly how to do a version of through wire. Very talented lure maker. 
He manages to get a layer of epoxy down before putting the lip in. I would have thought that would have been an issue. But I’ve never tried it that way. 
https://youtu.be/ECW9f6sNomA

Edited February 4, 2021 by eastman03

[Big Epp]

Great video.  He has a really good point, wood is easier to sand than epoxy!

[LHL]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:53 AM, eastman03 said:

Remember- you don't want to be remembered for this= (this is a 120$ Canadian headlock lure).  I don't want to name names, but there ya go.  Their lures work great and catch fish!  And I love their epoxy finish and aluminum lip.  But that's about where it ends.  I fear I paid for a name, not a quality product. 

I'm slightly confused on these pictures @eastman03 since I can see your stay-lok snap connected to a screw eye, but the connection point on a headlock is to a pin on the aluminum lip. Where did this screw eye come from?