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UKandy

How much lead?

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Hi all :yay:

Would like to ask a quick question please, which hopefully will get a good response and provide a wide range of information!

So my question is, how much lead are you adding to your baits to achieve a slow rate of sink?

If you could please state the material used for the lure, the lure size & the amount of lead used, that would be great!

I think this will be interesting information for myself & some others, who are new to lure building :yay:

Thank you

Andy.

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21 minutes ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

With my resin baits zero but I adapt my mix and pour sections of pure resin instead :)

wood baits it varies depending on size. I don’t know it but I think Dave has a formal to at least get you close 

Sounds like you are on the ball with the resin mixes buddy, yeah Dave's got the chart, I'm just wondering what people are using first hand, without having to input all the data myself!

I thought a few may help out :yay:

Andy.

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The question you ask is pretty much impossible to answer.  There are so many variables from volume of lure (which is much more than just length), type of material it is made from, how fast you want it to sink, etc., etc.

I will provide you an old link that has lure making details for specific lures in case you find a lure close to one you want to make.  Maybe this will get you close enough to start.

 

http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html

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33 minutes ago, Anglinarcher said:

The question you ask is pretty much impossible to answer.  There are so many variables from volume of lure (which is much more than just length), type of material it is made from, how fast you want it to sink, etc., etc.

I will provide you an old link that has lure making details for specific lures in case you find a lure close to one you want to make.  Maybe this will get you close enough to start.

 

http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html

Interesting stuff :yay: big thank you!

Andy.

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UKandy,

On Bass plugs kinda the same here. My Balsa baits do vary and it really does depend on the lot of Balsa, I've built suspending baits and used 4.5 - 6.5 grams, but swithced or ordered a different lot of wood and seen it change + or minus 1/2 gram, then getting real technical Ive ordered hooks from same mfg, same hook and seen similar changes. I'm not an expert on Balsa but I do know there are several densities that will effect your builds. I bought a fairly large lot several years ago and it was suppose to be the same density, it was not and it took me forever to get it figured out, I had to build and test each bait individually to get the same results. 

Also switching from different sealers, paint and clear coats has proven to effect my end results as well, so it basically led me to finish / test baits one at a time to get them as close as possible. The one thing I've learned, it's not that critical on high floaters, fast risers, square bills, etc. but when your trying to get a bait to be neutral or suspend the prise is in the small details, but it makes for a much better performing bait, in my opinion.

I have a buddy that fishes alot of bigger Tournaments, he buys his Crankbaits by the dozen, takes them to the lake for test & tune day, I've spent a few days with him doing this and it's taught me alot about what he's looking for and how he seperates or segregates his crankbaits. Fast risers, Medium risers, etc. He also tries to guage the depth and diving performance ( how fast it gets down to desired depth ) on his plugs as well. He takes several dozen spends the day with them and marks on the bills ( sharpie ) of his findings. He said it's the only way he can make quick decisions and choose the right crankbait for the depth ( fish ) he's targeting.  

A few years back I built him several medium diving plugs ( 8' - 12' ) we went to a local lake that has alot of grass, we found deeper grass that was about a foot below the surface, he said I'll show you a few tricks. He fished those crankbaits most of the day finding what it took to get them to touch or dive into the grass, then made changes, rods with Mono / vrs Flouro or Braid. Switched hooks, added bigger O Ring on line tie, etc. He could almost call his shot and get the plugs to just barely touch the grass or get them to dive into it. I was surprised on how critical he was and after watching him it made me understand the reasoning. He also suggested I build plugs for situations, instead of trying to mass produce them. Meaning, if we are going to take the time to build these lures and want them to outperform other plugs on the market, we must first and foremost understand what that plug will do.

I cannot remember who told me this it might have been Travis? but he said many years ago a famous ( great angler ) known for 3 intials, used to buy hundreds of custom balsa / wood crankbaits in hopes of getting a few great ones? Dont quote me on that but thats what I remember. Now I'm not suggesting plug builders today are any better than the older plug makers a few years ago I'm just saying if that was the case a few years ago, it's probably the same still today?

Anyway sorry to ramble, but I'm no where near where I was 3-5 years ago and my thoughts and ideas have certainly changed ( for the better ) in my opinion, but I took Travis advice and have built much better plugs recently and owe alot of it to him.

Thanks happy plug building and tight lines when you get a chance to fish them.

Rich      

Edited by RPM
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4 hours ago, RPM said:

UKandy,

On Bass plugs kinda the same here. My Balsa baits do vary and it really does depend on the lot of Balsa, I've built suspending baits and used 4.5 - 6.5 grams, but swithced or ordered a different lot of wood and seen it change + or minus 1/2 gram, then getting real technical Ive ordered hooks from same mfg, same hook and seen similar changes. I'm not an expert on Balsa but I do know there are several densities that will effect your builds. I bought a fairly large lot several years ago and it was suppose to be the same density, it was not and it took me forever to get it figured out, I had to build and test each bait individually to get the same results. 

Also switching from different sealers, paint and clear coats has proven to effect my end results as well, so it basically led me to finish / test baits one at a time to get them as close as possible. The one thing I've learned, it's not that critical on high floaters, fast risers, square bills, etc. but when your trying to get a bait to be neutral or suspend the prise is in the small details, but it makes for a much better performing bait, in my opinion.

I have a buddy that fishes alot of bigger Tournaments, he buys his Crankbaits by the dozen, takes them to the lake for test & tune day, I've spent a few days with him doing this and it's taught me alot about what he's looking for and how he seperates or segregates his crankbaits. Fast risers, Medium risers, etc. He also tries to guage the depth and diving performance ( how fast it gets down to desired depth ) on his plugs as well. He takes several dozen spends the day with them and marks on the bills ( sharpie ) of his findings. He said it's the only way he can make quick decisions and choose the right crankbait for the depth ( fish ) he's targeting.  

A few years back I built him several medium diving plugs ( 8' - 12' ) we went to a local lake that has alot of grass, we found deeper grass that was about a foot below the surface, he said I'll show you a few tricks. He fished those crankbaits most of the day finding what it took to get them to touch or dive into the grass, then made changes, rods with Mono / vrs Flouro or Braid. Switched hooks, added bigger O Ring on line tie, etc. He could almost call his shot and get the plugs to just barely touch the grass or get them to dive into it. I was surprised on how critical he was and after watching him it made me understand the reasoning. He also suggested I build plugs for situations, instead of trying to mass produce them. Meaning, if we are going to take the time to build these lures and want them to outperform other plugs on the market, we must first and foremost understand what that plug will do.

I cannot remember who told me this it might have been Travis? but he said many years ago a famous ( great angler ) known for 3 intials, used to buy hundreds of custom balsa / wood crankbaits in hopes of getting a few great ones? Dont quote me on that but thats what I remember. Now I'm not suggesting plug builders today are any better than the older plug makers a few years ago I'm just saying if that was the case a few years ago, it's probably the same still today?

Anyway sorry to ramble, but I'm no where near where I was 3-5 years ago and my thoughts and ideas have certainly changed ( for the better ) in my opinion, but I took Travis advice and have built much better plugs recently and owe alot of it to him.

Thanks happy plug building and tight lines when you get a chance to fish them.

Rich      

Brilliant information buddy :yay: I totally get what you are saying, it makes total sense, seeing your friend fish & tune the plugs must have been a real eye opener, I personally like the idea of tuning each lure & getting it just right, time consuming, yes, but hopefully the quality will shine through in the end.

You've certainly got me thinking about this now, great read that, thank you.

Andy.

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Search the form for ballast calculator.  There have been many discussions on this in the past about buoyancy and density and weight etc..  

Here is an example

Epoxy weight and/or density? Buoyancy spreadsheet questions - Hard Baits - TackleUnderground.com

If you know the density of the material you are using based on the grams per centimeters cubed measurement, you can use the woods weight in grams, or volume in cm cubed to figure out exactly how much lead would get you to achieve neutral buoyancy.   Then you could add/subtract as you desire.  This is all based on Archimedes principle which I "understand" barely lol.  It's all about the volume - my mind was blown when only even kind of understood that.  The good thing is! @Vodkaman has put together a ballast calculator spreadsheet that lets you plug your numbers in and much smarter/technical people like him have done the legwork for math and putting it in a simple to use spreadsheet. 

I, like a lot of builders, use much more trial and error method.  But the calculator has helped me to hone in on the correct number very quickly!

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RPM said: "I cannot remember who told me this it might have been Travis? but he said many years ago a famous ( great angler ) known for 3 initials, used to buy hundreds of custom balsa / wood crankbaits in hopes of getting a few great ones? Don't quote me on that but that's what I remember. Now I'm not suggesting plug builders today are any better than the older plug makers a few years ago I'm just saying if that was the case a few years ago, it's probably the same still today?"

I don't know if KVD did that, but I seem to recall that Hank Parker said that he did that on one of his fishing TV shows. 

I think that home brew baits have always been that way, and natural materials like wood are prone to that.  I recall when pros would fish dozens of baits looking for that "one" that would "Hunt".  With the improvement of commercial baits and plastic molding I think most commercial baits are almost exact from one to another.  That made for more predictable baits, but that "one special" bait was lost.

I don't do much with wood, but I still tweak a lot of my baits.  I kind of miss the old balsa and other wooden baits from the 70's and before, but.......I don't miss them that much when I look at my old collection and see all of my broken baits, cracked baits, peeled baits from those days.:oooh:

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Anglinarcher, Yes seems I do remember Ole Hank saying that as well, but I'm pretty sure KVD said something similar as well.

I've been building handmade plugs since 2010-2011? and they sure have evolved or at least mine have. I still have alot of my original crankbaits, I've always signed and dated them, it's nice to rummage through those old boxes and look at those baits.

As of late I have landed on a process that suits me and I owe alot of that to this site, I would spend hours reading old posts about design, construction and basics in general. I've mentioned this before, I had a buddy that I was mentoring, we built baits together, but he decided he wanted to fish more and left the building to me. I'll be honest I have missed some fishing but the enjoyment I get from building a really good plug sorta makes up for the lost fishing time. He still kids me about making plugs but its rewarding when he comes here and says! Hey Rich I need some plugs to do this, or to fish these conditions. Also the plugs sorta speak to me, I can tell when I'm building if one is really going to turn out above the rest or if one is superior, then the fire is rekindled and I cant wait to take it to the lake and run or test it. I also mentioned my mentor a few times, he came to me and ask for a plug that would dive 12 ft and would run well past the boat when retreived. I worked on that idea and design for months but finally got several that did just what he wanted and talk about proud! LOL

I get asked all the time about building plugs, and I'm always happy to opine, but I know it's not for everyone, especiallly if your in it for the wrong reasons. I guess about mid stream I decided I was not going after the mass produced baits and setteld on building lures for situations and quality instead. I could not be happier and still have alot of untested plugs and ideas, but it always keeps bringing me back in my shop, where building plugs is medicine for me. About the durability, I'm satisfied with my crankbiats and durability, never thought about them lasting forever but if built with durability / quality in mind I think my wood plugs still out perform any plastic bait and last as long as I expect them to. Recently I've been studying Japaneese crankbaits, and trying to build around thier ideas / priciples, it's been a game changer as I've got a few sqaure bills that will blow your mind and are kept highly guarded around here amongst my fishing buddies, club members and guys who get thier hands on them. I highly suggest anyone interested in crankbaits should look long & hard at the Japaneese crankbait, craftsmanship, quality and performance they are great and when I get one to out perform them I know I have built something special.

Sorry to ramble, if you cannot tell crankbaits are a passion of mine.

Thanks Rich  

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