Devcon or ME?
35 replies to this topic
Posted 20 December 2004 - 10:58 PM
I have only used devcon to date (Does 10 baits count?) but will be switching to e-tex when and/or if I ever get satisfied with my painting skills. I've stripped the lures I'm currently working on 6 or 7 times now. pretty soon I'll toss these and move onto the next batch of scrap.
Posted 21 December 2004 - 10:34 AM
Ricoh and Skeeter;
I think you right about the cause of the coating failing, the coating on the sharp edge of the lip is inherently just too thin. I would have had the same problem with either top coat, the design was not well suited for the application.
There is no way to avoid banging the rocks when inlet fishing. Lures must be designed to handle the abuse. I only went to my banana lure as a near surface option after my father-in-law and I had already lost five lures due to hang-ups. The banana lure was designed for the flats where there is only the occasional oyster bed for obstacles. I now know I must design my inlet lures without sharp edges if I want more durability.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 02:29 PM
Guess it's time for our annual epoxy spat (no pun intended). Funny, it was almost one year ago that I posted some chemical properties of common resin systems. Remember this?
I guess I really dropped the ball. I never completed it. Maybe I'll look at again soon.
***TIP*** For coating over foil - Leave some area on the lure (top and/or bottom strip) uncovered by foil. If you cover the entire bait with foil, and then coat the entire foil surface - what you have is a "floating" coat. The epoxy does not bond with the wood. Leave some bare areas (that expose the wood core) for the epoxy to bond onto. It is a much stronger topcoat to have the epoxy both adhearing to the wood core as well as to the foil. Of course, you'll have to paint over the bare areas. A little more surface bonding with the core in random areas will certainly help, no matter what resin you use.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 03:11 PM
That's a good tip on the foil AlamOso!
A few bullets concerning the two finishes from my perspective:
1. I cannot say Devcon ever failed me. I had one or two baits do some strange peeling but I have had a couple odd things happen with Etex too.
2. It seems once dry Etex is more difficult to peel off, it comes off in small pieces while Devcon will come off in large chunks.
3. I have some Devcon baits that yellowed some on the bellies but I suspect this was more a result of a paint problem than anything else.
4. Etex is easier and considerably cheaper to use when working with large numbers of baits.
5. I know of several large builders that use Etex as a final finish, none that use Devcon.
6. Etex burns my eyes, Devcon does not.
7. I think it's easier to get a perfect finish with Devcon than it is with Etex.
8. Anglers fishing my baits are reporting that the Etex is holding up exceptionally well for them....thus far.
9. Etex is cool, Devcon is for Dweebs.....sorry couldn't resist that one Skeeter.
10. Have had one bait returned to me with Etex but think it was likely a combination of repeated slams to the rear of the bait but toothy critters and potentially uncured paints.
11. Got tired of having to track down the Devcon, supply was not always available.
12. I have more problems with bubbles in Etex than Devcon.. I know Rich says this is something I am doing wrong but I am a very persistent fellow and still have hassles with it.
Beyond all that, some of you might remember the Devcon Bait test I was running in the window of my truck? Well that bait sat in the direct heat of my truck all summer long and it hasn't yellowed a bit! I will post a pic if anyone is interested.
Etex is my choice for now but I expect any day someone will post info regarding something "better", looking forward to it.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 04:06 PM
Devil!!! I cast thee out in the name of Almighty 2TON!
Don't you see Jed?!?! Your eyes are burning cause you're starin' into the firey pits of hades! It says right on the etex .. "abandon all hope ye who open these packages"...
Nathan, Skeeter.... it's not too late for an intervention! If we wait too long we may have to perform an extex-orcism!
Posted 22 December 2004 - 05:15 PM
Busting gut here guys..................
Eye inratation is there.
It is like, like working with vinger, when washing windows.
Call before next clear coat batch, I will clear the bubbles for you.
Thought you were more open minded.
You guys still do use them new fangled iron horses don't you?
Just wait till I start with the moisture cure urathane.
Wetter the air is the faster it cures....
Temp. dosen't factor in at all.
Can dip a clear coat.
But that is a horse of another color...........and four rubber tires.
Your not ready........
Posted 22 December 2004 - 05:45 PM
Ricoh, Just one question, how do you accellerate the cure of Etex? TIA
Posted 22 December 2004 - 06:06 PM
Here is how you cure it quicker Husky. Sneak into the bathroom and steal the Wifeys hair drier. Turn it on and point it at the bait for about 14 hrs. You will notice it starting to harden.
Artbrush....... From the way Jed is sounding it would make the movie the Exorcist look like a Bugs Bunny cartoon. His head may spin like a top!!!
Bring on the urathane. Been there done that. Tell me how long it will take before your finger nail will no longer score it.
At least I am not an Etex weenie!!!
(the Devcon dweeb)
Posted 22 December 2004 - 07:26 PM
The urathane is only good for a clear coat.
Your finger nail will never score it, well if you had a diamond ring you have a chance.
Remember there are many products out there we all have never even heard of.
It is made here.
By my old partner.
Might make a great sealer..........
I have not tryed it yet on cranks.
But it rocks on jigs, if you go to my former products site www.jigglywalker.com
The silver ones are just lead covered with the clear.
It sets in under 30 sec. on a 70 degree humid day.
Second coat for a crank in like 5 mins.
Once set, you have to drill out the hook eyes.
It is made to stop metals from tarnishing.
Like the copper roofs on church domes.
They stay polished copper shinny for 20+ years
For the cranks I worry beause for the non-solid base we are working with.
Would it be a M+M shell type thing.
Parntership has gone way sour and Lawyers will be doing most of the talking between us.
Biggest problem was getting the container open a second time if you got any on the rim.
Just plain locked it shut, cut it and put in another can if the only way to recover.
It can not be sprayed cause the gun would be done, junk afterwards.
All the paint for that jig we invented, because nothing could stand up to the abuse, and they are all water basied urathanes.
I have told some of the guys about it , was hoping to test it before talking to much about it.
Back to Etex.
The use of a hair dryer in that manner will cause the product to be much much harder to work with.
It is exactly the wrong thing to do.
Please do not try it, that way you will fustrate yourself beyond belief.
As it heats that way it will thin and keep flowing all over the place.
With my methods I can do it with out any rotation rack, even.
Never used a dryer yet.
Heck I have to slow it down.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 08:18 PM
You guys keep at it I'm learning a lot here from both sides of the coin.
AlamOso: Cool tip on the foil, thks. It IS as good idea to really complete your epoxy project; looking forward to it.
May I know how you do it? and the no bubble thhing as well.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:28 PM
The moisture cured urathane that I used could be sprayed through an airbrush. It was used on lead baits also. It sprayed well. Usually 2 to 3 coats was real good. The problem was that it cured hard enough to use the bait in about 2 days. 5 was better. But I could still crease it with my fingernail for up to 4 weeks. After that it got extremely hard. Tuff Tuff Tuff. I had the bait for 6 mos and never saw any yellowing. I probably would have continued to use it, but the long dry time was just not acceptable. I could have sold the baits after two to five days, but I just didn't feel right giving a bait to a customer that was not cured. They could have fished it and the bait would have been protected. But if they really put the bait through its paces then it would have scratched pretty bad. You have to be careful with the stuff because you can end up with a 1 gallon hockey puck. If you aren't careful with how you store and use this stuff it can happen. But I will admit that the coating was the toughest clear that I have ever used to this date once it cured completely.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:49 PM
Can you even get Etex over there.
When I spray it on it sets instantly.
I can just rotate a bait by it's lip in my hand(nitrite gloved).
And I simply use a small spring clamp to hold the bait up rite by its lip or back hook hanger, till the cure is hard to touch.
90% of my crank work is repaints of rapalas.
Some times I only have 3 days to do 300 raps.
The bubbles are gone to start with in my system for brush on.
There are no bubbles in the mix.
They are added in by bad brushing / mixing technique.
You make the air bubbles in between the bristles and then they are applied to the bait.
This is by fluffing it as you lay in on and trapping the air under it, instead of lead a clean edge forward.
That make sense, not shure if I explained that well...........
Not everyones problem though, haste makes waste.
Some is trapped in pockets of the lower coat and this has to be delt with.
Better finishing on every step means less work, as in every thing.
What I do with the Etex doesn't not work at all with devcon.
Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:58 PM
One dip is all a jig takes put in other hand uprite, dip another , hang the first on a rack becaus it is set, dip next,..........
60 mins after your done dipping the last one, take them off the rack,
because the are done.
This stuff will finish a 20'x20' hard wood floor in 5 mins.
I think you can walk on it in 4 hours, set furniture in 12 hours.
It is like instant diamonds.
Bad fumes, can explode in confined spaces.
Used only buy well trained pro's.
It can not be purchased directly by the public.
Posted 23 December 2004 - 12:21 AM
I think for once you guys have left me speechless...or maybe it was just all those Devcon fumes, can't be sure.