Great stuff, Cliff. I assume that is with the PVA release agent. JMHO, but that seems to be the best way to attach the lip. You get the best of both worlds, the Foam adhesion and the thru wire. As I mentioned to Coley, I was very surprised at the extreme strength of the Lexan/Foam connection. There must be a chemical bond that happens between the 2. Kudos to you and Coley on your work and research.
Here's a pic of lure straight out of mold, with exception of sticking on eyes. Cliff
Foam baits with molded in lips
60 replies to this topic
Posted 22 December 2004 - 01:14 PM
Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:20 AM
First let me say that is awsome work!
Next how many lures do you get out of one of those kits and which one did you get from that place. I would think you could get a few lure out of the small package of foam?
Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:39 AM
Hey Conman. You can buy a 4lb kit for about $18. The kit is basically 2 1 qt cans, 1 of each part. That translates to 1/2 gallon of raw product, which expands. I never did a count but I'm thinking it'd yield in excess of 100 lures, depending on size, of course. http://www.shopmaninc.com You can get a 16lb kit, 2 gals for $48. Pick up some Mold release wax and PVA while you're there, if you want results like Cliff, above.
I feel obligated to say that I am in no way connected to that company. It's just that their Prices, products, service and customer service are excellent!
Posted 23 December 2004 - 11:44 AM
Hey Cliff, that's a great job. I just don't see the need for
a through wire in my case. I don't think there is a bass
around that can tear out my lip installation, after the testing
Nor do I think the cotter pins will tear out. These lips are not Lexan, they are some type of plastic.
A rep of Jannsnetcraft told me that.
I have noticed the figure 8, used for line ties and hook hangers
pull out of plastic baits fairly easy.
Let's keep taking this foam thing to the limit.
I am contact with Del to make an alum. mold.
My molds are doing a good job, just not perfect as I think
an alum. mold could produce.
Husky is going to cost me a fortune.
Posted 23 December 2004 - 01:53 PM
I am here in PA, watching the Philadelphia Eagles self destruct... AS USUAL ( Every Year they give us a SNIFF to lose it all! ) and Banging out some Balsa Cranks. I am completely in awe of all this Mold Making stuff! I am still enjoying "LEARNING" the Balsa and Poplar wood way, but with the results I am seeing here, you guys are flat out kicking me in the behind and flat out inspiring to try this! Maybe Husky can offer me an answer to these questions... How is this Holding up through time? I mean is this foam stuff worthy of making baits to turn around and sell, and that will last a good bit? It really does sound like a neat concept to sell, but it also does sound like the product just doesnt have the UMPH or the feel of wood. I guess I am still an Ole Head that wanted the WOOD feel of a crankbait in the fact that it is different than the plastic ones every one is throwing. But again educate me a little more on this... is it WORTHY of trying and selling, or is it a lazy way out? I dont mean to offend, but being a Philadelphia Sports fan.... I am a pessimistic by NATURE!! Cody
Posted 23 December 2004 - 03:10 PM
Lazy way out of what??
Don't think so!!
If you wanted to sell baits and make good money, this is the route
for a small man to go.
You can produce and reproduce the same identical bait
at least 3 times an hour.
Can you produce 3 identical wood baits in a day, hardly.
More baits at the same cost of materials and a whole lot less
labor, which you can sell at less cost, which in turn, will sell
more baits, which equals profit. Something hard to do with wood,
especially balsa, because of the labor.
Does that make this bait any less of a bait??
Not in my opinion, if that was the case, would all the painted
plastic baits sell as well as they do.
Some guys on this site only paint plastic, and their work is fantastic.
And they sell!!
And to top it off, it's fun, at least for me, I like a challenge,
and believe me, it is.
Posted 23 December 2004 - 03:20 PM
Do these baits perform more like a wooden bait or a plastic bait? Out of say 10 baits, will all 10 run true? That does look like a lot of fun making those. I am not ready to get into the mold making but I would buy a Del-mart crank mold to play with
Keep the discussion flowing... this is interesting stuff.
Posted 23 December 2004 - 05:17 PM
Oh dear Lord, I hope this doesn't turn into an Etex/Devcon thing.
Here are some simple facts.
a. 16 lb foam is stronger than nearly any wood, let alone Balsa.
b. as these baits are impervious to water, they will not leak, split or lose balance.
c. All your castings will be more or less identical. The only variations will be the ones the builder put in them. (Intentional or otherwise. )
d. The speed which you can produce them is incredibly faster. Much of the rote, busy work is eliminated.
e. It feels more like a piece of hard maple, sounds like it too. It is nothing like the plastic lures you've seen.
Is it better than wood? That is a question the builder has to answer for himself. Chip, one of the best wood builders around, now makes most of his line out of "Other than wood materials." You can't spend 2 hours on a plug and make money at it. Some here spend much more than that. I don't sell my plugs, but I don't see why I should engage in all that "BUSY WORK", building a plug that a Bluefish will trash in one hookup.
Coleys and Cliffs work sure look saleable to me. What do you think?
It's relatively inexpensive to try (Unless you trash a $40 plug as a model! ) So check it out for yourself. I'm sure Coley will take any unused portion of the stuff if you're dissatisfied. JMHO
Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:08 PM
Husky is telling you right about the toughness of the plugs. I have seen these type of plugs before and they are Extremely tough. They appear that they will last a very long time to me. They may out last you. I still have not fished one of these plugs. Maybe Coley will do a trade with me so I can try one. You definitely can make more in a day casting them than you can carving. And Husky is right about allot of extra steps to make one out of wood. Coley's idea of molding the lip in may take care of the lip pulling out problem. It sure looks solid to me. I will still make mine out of wood because I enjoy the art and crafting of them. It is just my preference. But you definitely could produce and paint more baits by casting than with a knife and sandpaper.
Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:26 PM
Yo Guys...... RELAX. I stated I dont want to offend! Right?? Take a deep cleansing breath! Palms to the Sky, and let it out with a deep sigh! I apologize for the offense if you guys took it that way! On my part this is no way gonna be an E-Tex vs Devcon thing! I needed to be EDJEEKATED! Thats all! And in the last 3 posts on this topic you did that. I thank you and Im grateful that you guys got this foam thing down! I was also questioning the toughness of this material. You guys answered that. To me "foam" sounds very "Fragile". But if your gonna tell me that its got the tuffness of Maple... Im gonna believe you! I stated I was gonna try it, but was questioning wheteher it was worth it.. or just a lazy way out. You know what?? Its the RIGHT way to go! At least thats the personal feeling Im getting from myself right now from how you guys talked it up! Now the flip side to that, Me being a Fine Art Major many moons ago, Sculpting was a thing that we had to do to get a grade in 3D design. I actually liked it and learned alot from it. So mold making for me, been there seen it done it. Did it in Bronze and plaster. Using wax for the mold and clay. Also doing wood carvings by hand. I think thats why getting into Lure Making was a great marriage for me personally. Soothing my love for Art, AND soothing my love for fishing! This webpage is a great showcase of guys and girls who love what you do, share the wealth of the knowledge and we all gain and learn. Again the other fixation is tuning into the Photos of all the works of art that all you great bait builders have put together. Its flat out AWESOME! Anyway I need to point out to you guys though,... You guys really made it too too easy for us! Not only in Husky's Tutorial, but in Coley's showing off his accomplishments! Listening in on this post as well, it looks as if Bondo in the Local Stores has gone up 2 fold in sales! So Im gonna wait till AFTER the holidays to give this mold making a try. Unfortuantely, I will not be able to use a $40.00 lure as a mold!
Now to all have a Happy Holiday and spread the LOVE!
Posted 23 December 2004 - 11:49 PM
Just a note about foam crankbaits. I bought some well made and highly regarded cranks from Suddeth Baits a couple of years ago. When I decided to repaint one, I found the body was foam. It was harder to fill the sanded voids and repaint but it worked just fine and I'm still fishing it, so no complaints! Don't know if Suddeth is still in business. Think they were bought by another company.
Posted 26 December 2004 - 11:13 AM
I just finished up one for a friend. Here it is after a few dips in Plastic, ready to be finished.
Posted 26 December 2004 - 02:42 PM
nice, nice work!!! i don"t know who the lucky friend is but i bet he is going to be very happy ! Rob
Posted 26 December 2004 - 05:06 PM
Sorry for the late reply, I live in Columbus, Ohio and have been stranded without power or heat for 3 days due to ice storms with temps down to -5F !! Not a fun way to spend Christmas!! The molds in the photo are PMC90 (urethane rubber ) from smooth-on. Very hard rubber. I've only poured about 50 lures in this mold, so I'm not sure what life of mold is, but so far so good. The lure in photo is with PVA mold release. Can't really tell from pic, but it comes out glossy and smooth. I've since went back to Mann's ease release 1700 with talc (it's just quicker). I've made several wood versions of these, but like the action of the foam alot better. Good Luck. Cliff
Posted 26 December 2004 - 05:54 PM
Hey Husky, looking good. I coated my first bait today
with the plastic. Going good so far. Of course, I have
to work around the lips. Always something. I like
it so far.
Posted 26 December 2004 - 07:17 PM
Mask them with cellephane and angle dip them back to belly. :idea: Use a wide mouth jar, too. :!: You should be able to get total coverage with little to none touching or staying on the lip. Just my $.02
Posted 26 December 2004 - 08:35 PM
thanks for the great reading guys. as a wood baitmaker i am very intested in the latest. you guys rock. i guess i have some more homework to do in the near future. george woodieb8s
Posted 28 December 2004 - 02:27 PM
Ok, Just ordered the foam from them. Very nice people i must add.
The tech guy told me that the best thing to use as a mold release on Bondo or any other pourous material would be Wax.. So, Think Im going to use the cheap stuff like husky uses.. Mineral Spirits and Vasaline.
I am excited about this.. Especially for Topwater baits.
Posted 28 December 2004 - 03:02 PM
Thanks again to Husky for the help......
This is my second 16 lb. foam type bait. First fished....... Great results, tuff as anything I?ve already tried.
There is a fish here in Brazil called "traira". Big teeth..... nervous animal. It usualy puncture platic baits, cut worms and grubs apart with one bite and just destoys balsa.
Got six sunday afternoon... Medium size 2-3 pounds .... The bait is intact.....
Also follows a traira?s mouth pic.........