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still fightin bubbles
18 replies to this topic
Posted 14 March 2005 - 08:19 PM
Does anyone know if etex will have the tendency to bubble if warmed up too much? The reason I ask is my drying room is about 85 to 90 degrees F and wondered if this could be part of the problem I am having. Just cuious as to whether or not anyone else has seen this happen.
Posted 15 March 2005 - 08:09 AM
As you know Jed, all I can answer on is Devcon. Bubbles in paint, clears, and clearcoats from what I can tell is caused from air being traped in either the mixed liquid or from air trapped in the pores of the wood that you are putting it on. That is it. Period. That is why I coat my baits with polyurathane before I paint a lure. It doesn't really seal the wood but it does fill the pores of the wood some to cut down on the air that is trapped. Some epoxies say not to mix their product with wood. This is why Devcon includes the plastic stir. Even if you "fold" the Devcon or whatever when you mix it, some air is going to get trapped. Many say that you can breathe on the mixture and the bubbles will come to the top. This is true but you will never get all of the bubbles out before you start spreading the mixture. For me, multiple brushings in an area as I apply the clearcoat get rid of most of the bubbles. By running the brush through the area you are creating spots for the air to escape. You really have a fair ammount of time to work with Devcon. I know that it gets tacky quicker than most other products. But as you know, if you are organized when you get ready to clearcoat a bait, then you have plenty of time to work with it. The hot area that you are woking in causes the clearcoat to tack and cure quicker. Therefore you may have to work alittle faster. But the multiple brushings has taken care of much of this problem for me. You will never be able to completely have a "bubble free" epoxy over wood, but you can sure get rid of the majority of the problem.
Posted 15 March 2005 - 06:11 PM
Ok Jed I can give you a low down on the E-tex.
I use E-tex only on my bait's. I mix it like normal and let it sit for 10 to 15 min at 75 degrees. then I give a good coating on the bait. The heres where alot of guys make misstakes. After you get the good coating on you scrape the brush on the container and keep going over the bait and scrapeing the brush after every pass until you have a thin coat and you will find that no bubbles will form because the coating is so thin.( I think the bubbles are from a too thick of coating). and you can always add the second coat later. I do two coats and have no problem at all, never have bubbles or had to use a torch on my baits!
If you have more questions you can pm me if you like.
Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:59 AM
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I don't ever put on a "thick" coat Rob but I will give your suggestion a try. The reason I don't think it's coming from the etex is because the bubbles will keep coming from one spot like a hot spring at Yellowstone! I Plaster of Paris it, it's right back, you can Plaster of Paris the bubble a hundred times and it just keeps bubbling! The air has to be coming from the wood and or sealer. I also find that some baits bubble like crazy and others not at all. Some batches of wood bubble like crazy, others do not. And, the larger the bait, the worse the bubbles by far. My 6" baits are much better than the 1"x8" baits. I plan to experiment with some new sealers and primers....thanks again!
Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:18 AM
One Question how many times do you dip your baits in killz? I am sure I know what is happing.
Posted 16 March 2005 - 07:49 PM
I dip it in on one end, flip it over dip the other and hang it til dry. I wrote you and email the other day Corey from the address on your web page.....did you get it?
Posted 16 March 2005 - 07:49 PM
I dip it in on one end, flip it over dip the other and hang it til dry. I wrote you an email the other day Corey from the address on your web page.....did you get it?
Posted 16 March 2005 - 07:58 PM
Jed, at the risk of having already mentioned this, I seal all my hardwood lures by dipping them in Minwax Polycrylic a couple of times before dipping them in the Kilz...I think you're going to have to seal first especially in that kind of heat, which is certainly not helping, to keep the mini-volcanos at bay...note that with pimer-sealers, primer is the word that comes first.
Posted 16 March 2005 - 09:24 PM
another thing to consider..
Are you topcoating your baits as the temperature around you is rising?
If so it will cause the air in the pores of the wood to expand thus causing off-gassing and creating the bubbles. You could try coating your baits later in the evening when temperaturs are dropping this will cause the air in the wood to contract thus drawing the top coat into the bait.
Posted 16 March 2005 - 09:43 PM
If these bubbles are coming from the wood it wouldn't matter what you dipped the lure in, they would surface through any finish you are applying. Does the etex get warm when it cures? If so that might cause the out gassing.
Posted 16 March 2005 - 09:46 PM
Yea it probably does Dano, that's why I asked if heat affected it at all. I generally keep the drying room at about 85 degrees F. Strange tho, the small baits, little problem, big baits, big problem!
Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:52 PM
I think your problem is the heat of the drying room. If your baits do not spend time in that heat to get acclimated before you coat them, then the air inside the wood cells is expanding. It will most likely find a way to escape no matter what. You should try to leave your baits in that room for 24 hrs before coating or turn the temp down to the degree your baits were previously acclimated to.
Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:38 AM
I will try that overkill, will turn the heat down on them and see what happens. I will let you guys know tomorrow or the next day.
Posted 17 March 2005 - 04:58 AM
85?F, that's hotter than my climate here Jed Your volcano should be expanding air from the wood itself. So ya I'd say it's your bait not at the same tempreture as your room.
I'm not familiar with Etex, but base on Devcon which cure a bit faster, I manage to eliminate most "micro bubbles" whatever that's left by stuffing my lure (hung when it's still tacky but not really flowing anymore) into a pressure chamber (home rigged from my old scuba tank) to 1500psi. Pressure will compress the bubbles, 1500psi is roughly (1500/14.7) 100 times atmspheric pressure so that really shrink/force most of the bubbles back into solution. (anyone complaining of bubbles in lure after this must be examining it under a microscope )
If u wanna rig one up I'd be happy to show u some diagrams on how to do it. But I have a disclaimer, play with it at your own risk, if structural integrity of your contraption is breached, it's a potential bomb. That's why I kept mine to 1500psi which is half the rated pressure for a scuba cylinder.
Posted 17 March 2005 - 08:20 AM
Little bait = less wood = less trapped air to expand
big bait = more wood = more trapped air to expand
Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:15 AM
What is happing is when you put the first coat of the Kilz on it is lifting the grain of the wood and holding it open. If you have your Kilz like water it is soaking in the wood deeper and not sealing the pores of the wood. So you have a minute opening where air can get trap. Now when your etex is heated up it is more of a runny liquid. Now the etex is getting sucked in the wood pore and sealing the hole and causing the trapped air too escape creating the bubbles. Two things you can do (one) use thicker kilz, (two) sand after each coat of kilz.
When I do my dipping I will let the first coat dry, I speed up with a heat lamp. This might help maybe it is drying the kilz before it soaks in the wood deeper. When I have dipped all my baits I start back at the first one. I hit it with 200 grit sandpaper smooth all the wood grain down. Wipe with a damp cloth and dry. I do this with the rest of the baits. Then I flip it over and dip the other end. I let this one dry over night. The next day I sand it and it so smooth and no raised wood grain.
Jed, I have started using the same wood you are using for a top water lure. I have not run into the problem that you are having. But I will say this, I have seen the lure suck in more of the kilz and lift the grain more then my maple lures.
Jed, I know we can get this to work for you PM me. I tried to call you on Tuesday night tell me when the best time I can call so we can see what we are doing different.
Posted 17 March 2005 - 01:39 PM
I will be home this eve, call anytime up to 11pm pacific time. thx.
Posted 18 March 2005 - 10:39 AM
HAD SAME PROBLEMS USED HEAT GUN ON PLUGS ONCE ON DRYING WHEEL. TAKES ALL BUBBLES OUT OF LURE.GIVE IT A TRY.
Posted 21 March 2005 - 09:48 AM
a guy told ne who builds rods and baits to get a propane torch and just flash the bait or rod guide no so close to burn and apparently the co 2 from the burning will pull the bubbles out apparently the epoxy manufacturers told hime to do this to sove his problem