Jump to content
Eyes how important are they and why?
35 replies to this topic
Posted 22 March 2005 - 05:26 AM
at least it is in OZ(21:36), I've been having an ongoing discussion with a fellow group of fishos and it centers around eyes on lures, the size (how big should they be?) color, style( the scared look) and position any thoughts?
Posted 22 March 2005 - 08:17 AM
Eyes, or at least the distintion of a head, are very important on a strike. Preditors, if they a can tell where the head of the bait is, will strike it first most of the time. Anytime one fish eats another fish they do so from the head as the dorsil fins will lay down and allow the prey to be swallowed. eyes are always at the "head" of the bait.
If you run your hand up a fishes back from the tail to the head you wwill see what I mean.
Some companies have taken to putting 2 small black dots on the back of their baits as well as eyes just to cover all the bases.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 09:41 AM
Eyes are important , but only to a point. I'm not a fish, so I cant relay what they think or even if they can think...but from my experience, the colors of the bait, the action of the bait, the sound of the bait are much more important than a small, plastic 3/8-1/4" eye. I have no doubt at all that I could pull the eyes off some lures and still catch fish.
Regarding a scared eye look, thats assuming that fish can judge an emotion (scared) from a fish's expression and form a rational thought...that would be a far, far stretch. Theres a psych term that speaks directly to when humans try to relate or place their traits, emotions and behaviors onto animals, cant recall it right now ?? Regarding how big the size of the eyes should be, I think that depends on the size of the bait or what fish you are trying to imitate, attempt to make it close to scale as possible.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 10:38 AM
Eyes are TOTALLY irrelevant to the fish. Think about it, the most successful finess lure of our times, the Senko, has no eyes. This is a lure that is fished slow and close and the fish have forever to minutely examine it, and then they eat them. I even tried a few years ago on a gin-clear lake when the bass were being particularly picky glueing on eyes to get bites, and it made absolutely no difference. HOWEVER, don't even think about selling, loaning or even giving away a lure with no eyes. Fishermen gotta have em.
PS- Kellure, the word is anthropomorphism.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 10:49 AM
I understand that fish don't think and that humans have the fault of trying to overlay their feelings and thoughts on everything around them.
Animals, including fish, learn by repetition and by instinct. We as animals also learn this way. eg: if you put your hand on a hot stove once you are not likely to do it again. That is instinct; there is no thought at the time of the action, it's only afterwards do we think how dumb that was.
As far as fish go, how do they "learn" that some things are edible and some things are not? Thet also learn that if they swallow a baitfish tail first they will be in trouble. Most of what they "know" comes from instinct. A "school" of fish is only a bunch of fish.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 12:00 PM
Just as a coincidence, I fished a homemade lure today with just the white primer on & NO eyes as yet. I got the best hour of fishing ever on that home strecth of water with a total of 4 fish with one lunker. (Now why I bother painting my lures ??)
My take is, fish strike at something that moves (enticingly to them). Action speak louder than "eyes". Some predetors will strike at their prey to paralyse/immobilise them first; so it's this first strike that we count on when fishing on lures. They may come back then & see where the eyes are to swallow it head first so as not to choke but this doesn't concern us anymore. Even on days when fish are striking short & light, we usually get them on the tail hook. They are taking cursive strike at their prey, whatever that passed in front of them will callup their instinct to strike, maybe not to eat but just to chase it away?
And like MagicBob points out, most SP grubs, worms etc got no eyes!!! to start with, yet they are effective lures.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 01:57 PM
Eyes are not needed to catch fish, only fishermen. At times a bass will hit a lure at the same time the lure is landing on the waters surface, it's a reaction strike.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 03:41 PM
Well, I guess it all comes down to what you believe and how confident you are using the baits you use.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 05:34 PM
Fellas some good reponses,
like the guy's here the same points come up time and time again. Over here we have some absolute huge fish with mouths like Texan ten gallon hats, I mean these fish (cod and barra) inhale their pray, Clamp'n'crush then swallow. While trout and our native will strike'n'stun (sounds like shock 'n'owe ) then come back and eat. So what difference does it make if your trolling for muskies or flippn for bass, are eyes that important then?
as trolled baits dont get stunned they keep move'n?
Posted 22 March 2005 - 08:41 PM
Magic, I have to disagree with your use of "TOTALLY".
If in fact eyes were not important to some fish why would they have spots that replicate eyes on other less important parts of their body? False eyes are a turth of nature as an attempt to cause the preditor to strike a tail instead of a head.
Never say never..........
Posted 22 March 2005 - 08:43 PM
Eyes are not necessary, but neither are quality hooks or (more than one hook for that matter) to catch fish. In fact neither are lures..just use a net, dynamite or speargun.
Actually I have read several studies involving eyes. One of the studies also tried different eye colors. The research proved that eyes are important and do make a difference. Yellow eyes were #1, red #2.
Of course fish can be caught without them, but aren't we here to make the best baits, that hopefully catch the most fish in the most effeceint way?
In the new BASS times newsletter is an article on a 4 eye lure. It is a large swimbait and they have found that they are catching many small fish because the bass think it may be two fish instead of one because of the eyes.
Also, I saw a post the other day on scent and its importance. Some said that it makes no difference at all, well maybe you should do some research first. The guys at Berkley lures did. They took a Rapala cut out a section replaced it with sponge, soaked it with scent and had much better results. In fact, one bass hit the same lure 12 times in row.
Think about this, have you ever ordered a meal from a menu without seeing or smelling food, yes. But how much different is the experience if you are at a nice resteraunt where all of your senses are stimulated? If the place looks nice, the food smells great, the chairs are real comfy, and the service is excellent, then you are probably gonna go all out for the fillet or prime rib!
The point is, the more senses you appeal to, the more chance you have of getting that weary fish to commit.
Posted 22 March 2005 - 11:11 PM
Nothing like a good debate, but you guys are kinda overthinking this. First, a bass can pretty well figure out which end to eat from the direction the prey is moving. If its not moving they just grab it as is. There is no reason to think they need any other visual cues as to which end goes first. Nor is there any research (by an independent scholarly study) that I'm aware of that shows a preference for which end gamefish capture their prey from. They will probably turn their prey if it doesn't go down the way they're trying to swallow it. Fish are really not all that bright. Lure manufacturers are useless as a source of impartial information. What do you think they are going to say - "Oh it really doesn't matter what color, taste, smell, eyes, etc...... catching fish is really just because of the angler's skill you don't need our special lures with special eyes." Right. Still as I said don't try to sell, loan, or give away a lure without eyes, even to me, because I don't even try to be logical all the time.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 08:19 AM
I said eyes are not needed to catch fish, but I do paint eyes on all my baits. Why? because I like the way dotted eyes look on a bait. Bass are predators like cats, they react on instinct. If you wiggle your fingers under the covers a kitten will pounce and attempt to kill. If a lure wiggle past a bass it will hit it (not every time) but if the fish feels the bait is not eatable then its spit out. Just an opinion, not based on any facts just observation.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 08:23 AM
I think it depends on the type of lure and the type of bait you are trying to imitate. Shad have large eyes. If you are doing shad baits, I think it makes a difference. You also have to consider the position of the eyes and how the lure runs. Eyes on top of a plug that is used on top really does not make sense as the fish never see the top of the plug. All in all, if it gives the fisherman more confidence in the lure, it will catch better.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 08:41 AM
You da man! My only thought is "totally"?
Do they help? Yeah.
Are they required? No.
Never say never...........
Let's go fish.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 08:42 AM
Well let's keep this going. Has anyone who smokes(cough cough) noticed that when you throw your butt in the water a bass will sometimes come up and take it?
Posted 23 March 2005 - 08:44 AM
Pssstttt. get a patent on your Winston's!
Posted 23 March 2005 - 10:56 AM
If eyes are not important why do some fish have fake eye spots near their tails?
If color is not important why do most bait fish have color patterns to camoflague them from preditors, even changing with conditions and seasons?
There is obviously a visual factor to the prey/preditor relationship, therefore it is possilbe to explot this fact to elict desired actions from the preditor.
I do not think it is as easy as to do as most people think.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 11:31 AM
I dont believe anyone has mentioned this as of yet. When the water is muddy I dont believe it would matter. Get the Chartreuse out.... However slightly stained to clear and it may make a difference. Cold water jerk baiting with pauses of almost a minute, might give a fish a chance to look things over. As far as worms,I have never seen a worm with eyes anyway.... However I think there may be something to it for cranks and jerkbaits in clearer water. Burning a rattle trap.... I dont know that a fish would be able to make the spot or eyes out at that speed anyway. It is a confidence thing..but the shad definately have eyes...so why not try to match the hatch.