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Eyes how important are they and why?
35 replies to this topic
Posted 23 March 2005 - 11:36 AM
This "fake eye" stuff keeps coming up and my observation on it is two-fold. 1. Most of the fish I konw of that have fake eyes are reef fish and not prey to any of the fish that most of us make lures for. 2. Even if they were common prey the notion that their purpose is to trick predators is simply guess-work. They could just as easily serve a reproductive function or an interspecies ID function.
As for lure color we should save that for another discussion as the original question was "How important are eyes and why".
Posted 23 March 2005 - 12:00 PM
My point was that if the conditions exist where a bass can barely see the bait...why bother...however I would disagree in clearer water and slow moving baits or paused baits. Of course then again....you have the lateral line thingy...which should be left for another discussion as well. But it all does tie together in your discussion of eyes and whether or not they are necessary. Can a Bass see? Or are their predatory skills all based on reaction to sound and use of lateral lines? Color choices definately make a difference......especially on pressured fish.This tells us they use sight as an influence... No doubt about it. So why couldnt something as simple as eyes make a difference?
Posted 23 March 2005 - 12:35 PM
Interesting and enlightening topic, I enjoy these discussions.
I am of the mind-set that eyes are fishermen catchers more so than fish catchers. Many of use have used a bait that after catching lots of fish the eyes get knocked off but it still catches just as many fish as before. We continue to use it because it works. If conventional wisdom says that fish key in on the eyes of prey then these lures we have used should not work, right? I believe that the action of the bait, running depth, and color (something they can see based upon water clarity and prefered forage) are far more important than eye color or size.
Some fish do appear to have "false eyes" on their tail area but I think we may be adding in a "human" dimension to this. Some fish that exhibit this trait also may have multiple "eyes" located all over their bodies, such as a red fish does.
When using eyes on a bait I like to use sizes and colors that compliment the color pattern and size of the bait itself. Like already stated, fishermen expect the baits they buy to have eyes on them and for them to look a certain way.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 01:26 PM
Remember this also. Most of the fish you catch are NOT hungry, they are striking out of reaction.
I have talked with Ken Cook, Bass Pro and Biologist and he can give you the metabolism rates etc. for the water temp and prove that most bass only need to eat every few days.
Reacting to something in their environment that is not normally there (ie a bubblegum worm??) has nothing to do with eating.
I think a lot of what goes into lure making, coloring and selling has more to do with catching fishermen than fish.
Of course...all my cranks have eyes so...
Posted 23 March 2005 - 01:41 PM
Just to make this discussion practical rather than theoretical here's what I do. First I believe the real importance of eyes is to fishermen not fish. With that in mind there are several pssibilities. Most of the baits I make lately are larger realistic trout baits so I go for super realistic eyes (I have even cut them from photos and glued them to the back of clear plastic domed eyes) in shape and color and then make them a little larger than reality to emphasize them. I know this contradicts my belief that fish don't care, but if fishermen do then why not emphasize them for a little extra dose of confidence.
Then there are the fancy paint jobs that are not as realistic. Then its cool to maybe add some expression like angry narrow eyes or big wide frightened eyes. An extra hit of bright colors doesn't hurt here.
Finally there's the really wild intense color schemes. Big bright and anywhere you want to put them. Top, side or bottom.
I guess my point is that knowing they don't matter to the fish doesn't keep me from using them on lures, and as a matter of fact it actually allows me to be more creative because if they don't matter then I can do whatever I feel like.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 03:42 PM
well, just my 2 cents for what it's worth:
Anything you do to a bait that will help catch a fish is worth doing. When fish go on a feeding frenzy, just about anything will work. On a crank bait, most of the fish 5 pounds and better the fish hit on the pause, which I think the fish examine before they strike. Big fish are not dumb. As for worm type baits, I don't think I have seen a real worms eyes, but I have never looked that close either. Put the eyes on, it doesn't take that long to do.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 07:11 PM
Enjoyable post so far. Yes eyes can make a difference but probably one of the lesser things to really focus on. Most lures actually are poorly designed to take of any advantage of eyes. Too many crankbaits have eyes too small for the body size of the crank. Just look at first of the year and juveniles. Eyes are very large in respect to the body and most eyes aren?t positioned on top of the head as many crankbait have them (Poe?s for example). As mentioned a lot depends upon overall water conditions if it is going to be observed or not.
Many freshwater species have spots or darkened areas along the caudal tail region that loosely mimic eyes/vital areas. Predators typically do attempt to strike head region as mentioned. The likely hood of hitting vital areas is increased greatly and result in higher predation rates. A fish can always come back and get a disoriented minnow. Just nature at work. Along with the fact fish go forward to escape thus striking at the eye means the prey will be coming towards the mouth once again increasing likely hood of success. Of course fish will also grab anything any way they can also. The closer the bait size to fish the more critical the orientation of the fish. The smallmouth I had in college typically struck 80 percent of the feeders headfirst. Sure they grabbed some by the tail or the side but guess which ones easily worked their ways out or darted quickly to miss the strike? Now these smallies were only about 5 inches and the goldfish and guppies 1 inch. False eye spots can be also thought of as disruptive coloration in that it disrupts the overall pattern/silhouette of the fish and can thus decrease the likelihood of standing out. Many fish may have spots as juveniles, when they are more apt to be preyed on, these fade as they age. Some freshwater fish in many of our waters exhibit a darkened area/false eye spot. Some examples would be shiners and minnows for example alabama, tricolor, blacktail, tenessee, taillight, suckermouth, bluntnose, and bullhead or the central mudminnow and one of the most obvious the flier.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 09:54 PM
Movement must not be important either. Many bass I have filleted had snails in their innards. I have also caught bass on bluegill fillets while catfishing.
So we have narrowed it down:
Lure does not need eyes
Lure does not need movement(or at least no more than a snail)
Posted 23 March 2005 - 10:09 PM
Movement is very important. It is amazing how keen bass are to the slightest movement. Both the snail and fillet both move either on their own or due to current. It is funny to see some of the stuff bass will eat. I picked through the stomach contents of one 10 inch bass that looked like it had eaten a salad. It was filled with filamentous algae. Sure enough as you picked away at the strands crawfish around an 1/8 of an inch were present. Also had a few small spotted bass from a creek that upon analysis had stomach filled with horsehair worms. We has siened a lot of them (horsehair worms) from the creek earlier.
Posted 23 March 2005 - 10:19 PM
Of course the fillet was moving, The Earth rotates on an axis doesn't it?
Posted 24 March 2005 - 12:37 AM
Earth on an axis? I guess you are going to tell me it ain't flat either!
Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:42 AM
The Fish JC 4-Eyes lure is made by Joe Castro, a friend of mine. I can assure you that the 4-Eyes catches more than just small fish. I've given too much of my money to him!
You musky guys should seriously give it a try.
Posted 28 March 2005 - 05:42 PM
my bro and i had an 8 inch bass in a tank about 2 years ago... we would feed it gold fish, crawdads, and nightcrawlers... but every once in a while we would do a test to see what the fish wanted... shad bait with eyes, shad bait without eyes, worm with eyes, worm without eyes... and 10 times out of 10 that little bass would eat the shad bait with eyes over the shad bait without eyes or worm with eyes over the worm without eyes. So to me bass will almost every time eat a bait with eyes over a bait without eyes when they are presented exactly the same right next to each other... but then we would put the shad bait without eyes or worm without eyes into the tank and the bass would eat it... so really it doesn't matter to the bass, but if there is a bait with eyes next to one without, usually he or she will take the one that looks more realistic.
Posted 28 March 2005 - 10:43 PM
I understand that the 4eyes will catch big fish. I was just making the point that medium size bass preferred it over some other big baits, possibly because the eyes made it appear to be several small fish swimming together.
For all you non eye believers, try moving some eyes on a medium or large bait. Catch several fish with the eyes in a normal position, then cover those eyes and paint some near the rear treble hook. Take note of which hook the bass was impaled on, then please post your results here.
Posted 01 April 2005 - 09:01 AM
Lures look better with eyes. KingKarl, dont be chep. Put them on and go the 3D look. I have put them on my spinnerbaits and they look so much better the painted eyes.
What rock are you hidding under, I've been calling you for the part week.
Posted 07 April 2005 - 04:15 PM
do I know you?????
M8 ever tried to call during normal hours :idea: If you bothered to read the original post it was about eyes and how importand they are in peoples minds when it comes to lures and fish perception
Ps I'll call you to save you a few bucks ya cheap scate