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16 replies to this topic
Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:02 AM
I recently cut out 50 bills. I then prefitted them into the bodies. At this point the only thing that could have made contact with the bills was some wood glue(tightbond). I then proceeded to foil and wipe the foil with denatured alcohol. It is possible the denatured alcohol came into contact with the bills.
My problem..... 5 of the bills overnight developed feather like cracks that ran across the entire bill. The bills were ruined. Could this have been a chemical reaction or something?
I have wiped lexan with denatured alcohol and even touched it with acetone before. I have never had this happen. Acetone tends to melt the Lexan but it doesnt crack it. Denatured alcohol... I have never had a problem using this before.
Whipped out 5 new bills however I dont want to have this happen again...
Anyone ever have anything like this happen???
GE Lexan .060 inch...
Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:28 AM
Basically all alcohol is denatured except for liquor. But there are different types and strengths (isopropyl vs ethyl, 70% vs 95%)...did you maybe use a different alcohol than your usual? Can't see why any alcohol woud affect the plastic any more than acetone. I also use acetone to very quickly smooth and polish the edges on cut lips with no issues.
Is this a sheet of plastic you have used before? Did they accidentally sell you something other than lexan? Were the lips clamped at any point? Exposure to cold? Dropped? What adhesive did you use on the foil?
Sorry for all the Q's...but can't see why it should have happened either. May just be one of those things...same reason I paint 3 baits if I need to match one or two for someone, insurance.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:39 AM
I bought the alcohol at home depot gold and blue can....the foil was glued with 3m 77 spray adhesive and I thought rubbing type alcohols were different than in the fact that they left a residue.
3M77 spray adhesive
nothing was done to stress the bills..... these were not yet glued in...
Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:42 AM
With out a doubt it is GE LEXAN...have used this same sheet for the last 2 years...
Posted 31 March 2005 - 12:01 PM
Take some scrap lexan pieces and drop them in the "alcohol" you will have your answer within minutes. I would assume acetone is likely your culprit. If these are wood baits they could have wicked additional quantities of acetone into the wood and increased the exposure time of the lexan bill. Another thing is too look at your spray adhesive often they contain incompatible solvents used for propellants, etc... The foil would work as a barrier not allowing the solvents to evaporate but be soaked (minimal amounts but enough) into the wood. These also could work there way through the wood or just concentrated on the cutout portion. I know the wood baits I have made the bill insert is usually rather rough in comparison to the finished bait and will work sort of like a wick when it comes to solvents and water. The denatured stuff shouldn't have done this but you never no. I am not for sure how close they follow specs on "generic" stuff. The toluene or benzene could have been higher but usually those are kept in lower ppm concentrations. Methanol and water would be the highest "impurities" in denatured.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 12:05 PM
I have already soaked a piece of lexan in acetone.....it doesnt do anything but melt it.
I have not soaked a piece in the alcohol, I will try this.
I will also try soaking a piece in alcohol and acetone that has the 3M adhesive on it....
Perhaps there is some type of reaction...
Posted 31 March 2005 - 12:33 PM
This is totally new to me. I have never had anything like this happen. I have never know either aceton, alcohol, or any other solvent that I have used to cause the cracking of the lexan. Is is possible that the sheet of lexan that you cut the lips from was bent or stressed in any way before you cut the lips and maybe did not notice the cracks untill later. I really don't have an answer for you but I am extremely interested in what caused the problem.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 01:07 PM
Only time I have ever had any cracking (for me it was spiderwebbing) was form Laquer Thinner I used to remove some excess paint off of a lip. I routinely use denatured alcohol to clean up tape residue left on lexan. I use MEK which is one of the strongest solvents around to smooth out the rough sanding edges on lexan lips never had a problem with that, can't say anything about acetone as I know it will melt and discolor lexan I have never used it to smooth out the roughness from sanding
Posted 31 March 2005 - 01:12 PM
Skeeter... this is new to me as well. I cut the other 45 lips out of the same sheet of lexan that I have been using for sometime. Nothing....they are now glued in place and all seem to be fine. I dont get it either....that is why I thought I would ask.....hopefully this is just a fluke. I have never seen anything crack like this either. These are long drawn out cracks with huge feathering run offs, that occured. Almost looks like a crystalization process or something.....
Posted 31 March 2005 - 01:37 PM
I am sure it most likely was due to the effects of acetone or other non compatible solvent in the "glue". Maybe with the addition of imperfections along the cut edges you saw this cracking. Acetone will crack it, I did extensive research on plastic compatibility and "solvents" a couple of years ago at work. Sure it will dissolve it also if enough solvent is around. Here is a link that some may find helpful for material compatiblity.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 02:42 PM
I've never had that happen with den. alcohol either and I use it pretty frequently. Keep us posted.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 04:03 PM
Here are some other non-chemical ideas. It may be possible that the wood you used was not completely dry. If it was only air dried and not kiln dried it may not have been down to the level of dryness that it should. If the wood was a little "green" and it dried some it probably warped a little. If there was a change in the humidity in your work area that could also cause the wood to move some stressing the bills. You mentioned wood glue so I assume you had two halves of the bait possibly. It could also be that they shifted stressing the lip. Some ideas from a shop teacher. I know sometimes my kids will square a board one day and the next it will look like a chair rocker.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 06:15 PM
OK now I am learning something. How do you guys use MEK and such to smooth the edges of lips. I know that acetone will cloud lexan as soon as it touches it. I would love to find something that I could clean up a lip with or dress some edges.
Posted 31 March 2005 - 07:32 PM
Jeff, take a 10penny nail cut the point off and grind flat. then take an old t-shirt and cut a section out, place the t-shirt material over the blunt end of the nail and pull it down the shaft so that is taught, dip in M.E.K. and run the nail and shirt over the edge of the lexan make sure that the t-shirt is very taught as if it is loose it will get some of the solvent on the surface of the lip and cause a blemish. If you go back to the post about painting a citrus shad bait and look at the lexan lip in the picture I posted it is glass smooth and looks like it was molded instead of cut and sanded. This old dog still has some new tricks left!!!!!!!!
Posted 01 April 2005 - 08:06 AM
Thank you for sharing with me Blackjack. This site is great. I am always learning from folks like you that are willing to share. I will go back and check the post.
Posted 01 April 2005 - 03:12 PM
You also cane flame polish the edges of your lips.
take a propane torch and just pass the edge of lip through the flame.