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rookie 'weighting question'
11 replies to this topic
Posted 25 April 2005 - 12:04 PM
Do youput the lip in, and the hooks, before adding the lead? Is the center of gravity, after putting the lip and hooks in, a good starting point for the lead? Thanks. :
Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:52 PM
Is this the same Finlander from MMA? I see you are from MI.
Are you talking about assembly or testing of a new bait? I ussually put the lead in the area of the bait with the most wood(belly) on a drop belly bait that is the lowest point on the bottom.That will get it to sit level in the water.If you are talking about a cylindrical bait then its a different story.What shape is the bait?
Posted 25 April 2005 - 04:36 PM
Damn! Can't go anywhere without getting caught! :-D The few I have made have a drop belly to them. Just visited luremaking101 and saw a few patterns, like a Grandma. I am searching for methods to weigh these lures. I know I have put weights all over the place in a few big cranks i have made. They are all over the wood shop, uncompleted. They didn't run true and I lost my religion trying to fix 'em. Say I want to try a Grandma look-a-like. Tail hook and two belly hooks. I have weighted things by drilling horizontal thru the belly area and then tapping in some pre-poured lead. I have drilled vertically from the belly upwards too. I probably killed the action on those by adding too much lead, in too many areas. But the wood I used was waay too thick, I can see that now. Now I will use 1/2 to 3/4" thick pieces. Won't need as much lead. I try a Grandma shape 1st. A straight belly. Lip and three hooks. Do I balance the lure on a nail or something to find the c.g.?
Posted 25 April 2005 - 04:57 PM
I really don't know what a Grandma is. But I do make crankbaits for bass. If it is some kind of Muskie plug or something I am not sure how these large lures react to weighting. But as for myself..... I cut the lip slot, cut out and shape the body, and then drill the hole for the weight. I try to line the center for the weight by making sure that the lip slot is horizontal. You can just slide a lip into the lure (without glueing it in) and just sight down the belly of the lure. I want the weight to be at a perfect right angle to the slot. I put the entire lure together and paint it completely before I install the lip. When I install a lip I "babysit" that lip and make sure that it is straight and square as the epoxy is setting. If I need to I adjust the lip to make sure that everything is square and lined up. As epoxy sets, it can sometimes twist the lip causing it to be crooked. This is also why I use Devcon 5 min. epoxy to set my lips. You won't have to babysit it for long. That way the lure and lip should sit in a level and horizontal position in the water. This is the proper position for a crankbait to start digging properly and running true. "Ballanced" is too vague of a word. What you want to achive is a lure that sits properly in the water so that it can achieve optimum performance. Some lures need a nose down attitude and some may need to sit more level. This judgement is up to you. Once you get the lure sitting the way that you want it you need to make sure that everything lines up. The rear hook hanger, belly weight, and wire for the line tie need to be in as straight of a line as you can make it. This is where the optimum ballance and performance come from. Once you have achieved these properties in a crankbait, then you will have a bait that is above the rest.
Posted 25 April 2005 - 08:29 PM
Yes, the Grandma is a muskie/pike lure, with sizes up to 13 inches. It's long, somewhat like a Rapala, only taller. It's thin, 5/8" thick. How would you weight a lure with a lip designed so that the lure runs shallow?? I can see the bass baits wouldn't need that much lead. Larger lures would, but in how many locations??
Posted 25 April 2005 - 09:18 PM
Bruce, mine are only weighted in one place, just behind the first hook hanger.
Posted 25 April 2005 - 09:40 PM
Finlander, I made the exact bait you are talking about.Look in the photo section and look at Walter.It is 15" long and is a Grandma fashion(knock off).I used 2 pre-cast lead weights 12" dia. about 34" long.I weighted it just so it sits up right in the water and just a little more so it can run a little faster and stay belly down.Try to keep the weight as low to the bottom of the bait as possible,you may have to go with 3 weights depending on wood type(buoyancy).I put the first weight 4" from the nose and the second weight 8" from the nose.I drilled the holes in from the bottom so they are vertical.I am using urethane poly board not wood, so you will need more lead than mine.Baits like these are a pain to make!Good luck!
Posted 26 April 2005 - 09:16 AM
What's the urethane poly board? Crane makes some of his from an expanded plastic??? that is available in sheets. I guess it is more consistant from piece to piece than wood, right?
Posted 26 April 2005 - 08:48 PM
skeeter, don't mean to hijack the thread, but since you mentioned this ...curious why you and many custom bait makers install the lip after painting. The downside, to me, would seem to be getting uneven epoxy on the paint and then having to try to get it off without hurting your paint job.
On the other hand, putting the lip in before painting, you have deal with primer and paint on the lip. The baits I've done to date (just a few), I've put the lips in before painting. Right now I've got about five jerkbaits, five Bagley's type alphabets and two Poes type lures sanded and sealed, and ready to paint and put the lips in, so I'm curious about whether I should change my process.
Posted 26 April 2005 - 10:22 PM
Tom S.-great looking lure. I can't wait to paint the couple I have lined up. If I wasn't so computer illiterate I would post 'em when I finish them. What do you use to paint them? Kingfisher at fish-all.com (?) is in Muskegon at he uses an airbrush with acrylic paint and Envirotex. Good looking stuff too. He offers a Deep Threat lure. Not sure how deep it runs but you don't want to target deep muskies when they can come up for a lure quickly. Again, what is this board you use?? Difficult to prep for painting?? Just got my 'raw' Believers in the mail today. Not sure how to paint that plastic. May have to rough it up first. Envirotex might not work on the plastic bodies. One will be a jailbird pattern for sure. Thanks for all the help.
Posted 26 April 2005 - 10:27 PM
There are several reasons why I put the lip in last. Most folks that put the lip in first protect the lip from paint by putting tape on it. This just leaves a sticky film on the lip. I paint my scales by using netting. The lip gets in the way when I do this. Also I like to see the lip sitting in the slot. It is not easy to have the lip sitting nice and snug into a clean cut slot. It is just a little detail that I like to have exposed. Here is a tip...... When I epoxy in a lip I just put some epoxy on the top and bottom of the lip. I don't put glue inside the slot. That way I don't have epoxy oozing out all over the place that has to be wiped off. I use Devcon for my clearcoat. When I brush it on for the final coat, I brush it on over the sides of the slot. That way the glue will fill in the rest of the slot and blend in perfectly with the rest of the clearcoat. Everything looks like it is one piece. It doesn't always work out that way, but when it all comes together it really shows that you planned everything out and that you have the skill to pull it off. Usually only experienced baitmakers look for this kind of detail. It is this attention to detail that can make your baits stand out above the rest and earn the respect of your peers.
Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:28 PM
Finlander, sorry on the late reply.The poly board I am using is pro lab 65 its modeling board used for making models and check fixtures.Its low density polyurethane so it still floats but is heavier than some woods.I get it from work (scrap) stuff.The stuff is pretty expensive to buy.If you want to try some I will give you some,I have a ton of the stuff!Kingfisher uses createx paints.He is the one that taught me to paint,very nice guy! I have ben using Rustoleum plastic primer when I do bare plastic baits.I have ben told that Kilz 2 water base will work on plastic also.You dont need to rough it up just make sure its clean then primer.After cleaning dont touch it with bare hands, fingerprints can cause a lot of problems!If you have any more questions send me an email through the MMA site.