9 replies to this topic
Posted 05 May 2005 - 04:13 AM
Hi all, lure builders!
I am a newbie to here. I think, I found the right place I admire your inventive attitude, beautiful creations, and appreciate so much the community spirit, that fulfils the forum.
After a few weeks of lurking and reading the old posts, I'm coming forward with some questions. I apologize in advance for my poorEnglish :oops:
I started building gliders a few months ago. I tried first a Salmo Slider-replica, which works fine (see pic http://img.tar.hu/be...e2/12165309.jpg ).
Next I tried several other patterns (from lurebuilding 101), but with few success. As there are so many variable factors, the trial-error approach does not lead so far. Maybe I could utilize your ideas, if you'll be kind enough to share with me.
So, my questions:
- Some gliders has rounded shape, fish-like body, while on others just the edges are rounded off. Which way is better?
- With crankbaits, the position of the line tie ring is very important, as I already understood. Just a few millimeter change can make a lively bait from a dead chunk. How does the line tie ring's position influence the gliders' action? What position is preferable, if I make a suspending, shallow running glider?
- Scaling down: gliders are generally pretty big sized lures. Our pikes are typically smaller, than the overseas musky, so I should decrease the size of my gliders. Does it badly influence the action, or it will work the same?
OK, it will be more than enough for first time
Posted 05 May 2005 - 06:20 AM
I'm glad you found your way here.
Riverman is our resident Glider expert. I'm sure he'll be chiming in with some words of wisdom.
BTW, that's a very nice plug you have there.
Posted 05 May 2005 - 02:37 PM
i mainly use smaller lures than those from the usa side of the pond, check out the roach glider and the copy of the loz harrop darter (small) on lurebuilding 101, my friend made them for me before i was into lure building and they have caught me more scottish pike than anything or any other lure, these are esox lucius that i have been catching which are the same pike as in hungary not huge big muskys, the loz harrop darter will glide as far as any flat sided bait will glide, the ones i have are copys but my friend has 20 odd darters made by loz himself and they don't half glide
they are diffrent from the salmos as salmos are a turn bait (similar to rivermans beer belly) rather than a glide bait, both excellent lures on their day,
i was gonna make a few as well, what did you make them from???
they look excellent
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:58 AM
Thanks, Johnny, I?ll try them. What depth of water do you use them on? What do you mean ?half-glide??
I?m a bit confused with the terminology (glider, darter, turn-bait, etc.), as jerkbaits are not really known in Hungary. I have a very slight idea only, that how are they supposed to behave in the water.
As for my ?slider?, it?s a bit different from the original Salmo. I made it after picture, without having the original in my hand (I got one in the meantime). Made of a light scrap wood from a picture framer (density around 0,4). The size is 10 cm (like the original medium Salmo Slider), but the weighing is different. The original holds the nose up, and has at least 3-4 g buoyancy, so hardly goes under the surface. My one sits in level, weighted like this http://img.tar.hu/be...e2/12191424.jpg and very slowly rising, almost neutrally buoyant. It comes in zigzag even retrieved steadily, and easy to make it gliding left and right. It was my very first jerkbait, and guessed that it must be an easy stuff :-)
The finish is alu foil, applied on with epoxy (head is coated with ?Euro? coin candy?s wrapping, you can recognize a star on the gill cover ) The scale pattern is pressed on with a small spoon, while the glue was half-set. Painting is done with my kids water-paint, and finally coated by dipping into fast drying ?nitro? lacquer several times.
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:08 PM
a glider is more or less as it says it glides out quite far to each side, i have had more fish on these lures than anything else, they are the ones i mentioned previously, they are weighted fairly neutral, and they can be fished slow as you like, the ones i have glide out quite far then cause they are neutral they hang out there if you pause, and i'm sure its this time during the pause that triggers alot of fish, a darter is just what loz harrop names his version of a glider
a turn bait just turns to one side then the other, and don't glide out to far, if the fish are walloping lures and feeding actively i tend to use those or erratic type lures that will keel over, simply because you can fish them a little faster and cover more water
the ones i have are fairly neutral they do sink ever so slowly, i fish them to about 6-7 feet at the most nothing overly deep, i finished one that gets down deep recently but haven't been able to get out with it to test it out
Posted 06 May 2005 - 06:21 PM
As I recall I answered these questions for you as best I could through email, perhaps you didn't receive my messages or didn't like the answer, lol.
I will be brief and answer from my personal experience which may not agree with those on 101.
1. Don't worry yourself too much with wood densities, heavy woods take less weight to sink them, light woods take more. In the end, a similar shaped lure whether built from a light wood or heavy will weigh at or very near the same. If you can get your hands on a dense wood all the better as these woods by nature expand less when wet than light woods. I am currently using mahogany, maple, and pine.
2. I have found no difference in whether the front tow point (front line tie) is situated veritically or horizontally. Some on 101 have said it causes the bait to dive if situated horizontally, I have not found this to be true at any level.
3. I prefer to round off the edges as best as I can on all of my baits. First I think it makes the bait look more like the baitfish I am trying to mimic and secondly it allows the final clear-coat to go on more evenly.
4. Choose a shape that is similar to a production bait you like for your first attempts. I have learned over hundreds of hours of experimentation that some shapes will glide, others will not.
5. Your glider when weighted properly should fall slowly while maintaining a horizontal posture toward the bottom of the test vessel (water bucket)..at least this is how I weight mine.
6. Woods less than 3/4" (1.9cm) are hard to get to glide consistently...woods at 1" (2.54cm) are very easy to get to glide.
7. I have never built a bait that has a wide glide to it like a Manta...if you want a bait to glide wide use round stock as these will consistenly glide far wider than flat stock wood of any shape.
Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:19 PM
Johnny, thanks for the definitions. I realized then, that glider goes farther in one pull, but changes the directions on each pull. In this terms "my slider" seems to be more glidebait than turnbait (opposite to the original one), because of the nose and tail weighting. It goes 50-80 cm in one direction.
I cut out a Darter last evening.
Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:41 PM
I was absolutely happy with your email , and really appreciate, that you answered me in private, but still nice of you to make it public here.
I asked here other things too, and wanted to know the opinion of more people.
My problem with my gliders (except the very first Salmo Slider replica), that they hardly change the direction when jerked, and in general, behave somehow passively. Maybe it depends on the shape, as you say, I'll go for different patterns.
As for the position of tow point, I didn't mean the horizontal vs vertical question now, rather upper vs lower. Any idea about it?
Posted 07 May 2005 - 02:20 AM
I have experimented very little with the "upper vs lower" location of the tow point so cannot help you much here. I would be interested in hearing your results if you choose to experiment much with this.
If your bait is not turning as easily as you would like it to it is a result of one of these things:
1. Wood thickness too thin--thick baits turn easier than thin baits;
2. Weights too close together...move the weights apart from one another to increase turn/glide;
3. Improper body shape...generally a bait that is shaped like a bluegill will turn more easily that one shaped like a perch.
4. Angler's ability to make the bait work properly.
Hope this helps.
Posted 11 May 2005 - 06:58 AM
Just a little support, if you gonna make something like this:
This is the X-ray image of a Salmo Slider, floating 4"
I built the roach, and darter in the meantime (not finished, only sealed yet), that you recommended.
The action of the roach is just brilliant, in spite of being flat and thin. I like it!
The shape matter is a mistery for me now. I built a quite similar shaped, flat, low belly lure before. The only difference, that the nose and tail was more pointed, and the edges were rounded off lightly only. It has a dull, clumsy action. I was afraid, that the roach will be the same but it was a pleasant surprise.
The darter is also fine, but could be more stable. I'll try it from thicker wood, as RiverMan advised.