nova Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Have any of you "lead-pourers" had your lead levels checked by your doctor? I used to make buzzbaits, spinnerbaits, and jigs about 10 years ago. now I just pour the ocassional 100 or so. I made 1000's of them and I used to lick the skirt-keeper before I would slide the band over it.(it went on a lot easier). I did this for years. One day my wife, the nurse, was in my shop and watched me do this. She freaked out and the next day I was at the doctor's office. My lead levels turned out to be normal, thanks to the "big guy" upstairs. So, just a thought; maybe you guys should consider having that checked out. What is your health worth to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Once everyone gets past the lead safety BS, and truly understands what it takes to get sick from dealing with lead will you realize how foolish the whole topic of blood level is. You do realize the human body has a certain level of lead in it right? If so, you also know that the human body has it's own build in way of maintaining that certain level of lead. So, unless you're adding a few spoonfuls of split shot to your daily bowl of wheaties, you will find that your blood level tests will always come back the same. The other option is to accept what is being fed to you from the media, and worry yourself to death about something you have no control over. This ranks up there with skin cancer coming from the sun's rays in my book................................total BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 My father lost the top of one ear to skin cancer; so I don't consider it BS. :!: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Read carefully - I didn't say skin cancer was BS - I said what everyone blames it on is.................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 I know what you said and I don't agree. Are you a Dr. or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 We started pouring lead in 1987 in a back room of our house. Have had lead levels checked every 2 to 3 years. Always normal. We have a strict policy of washing our hands after handling lead. Treat our cloths as contaminated any time we work around lead. In 2001 we moved our work to a work shop. Now I spend 8 to 10 hours a day, 6 to 7 days a week making lures. I take lead poisoning very serious. I have search OSHA web site and others on industries working with lead. From what I can gather is that they do not have any higher rate of cancer than any other industry. We don't allow eating or smoking in the shop. Everyone has to wash hands, blow off cloths with air before leaving. We talk regular (safety meetings) about importance of changing cloths when they leave here. Not to pick up kids with contaminated cloths on, eat etc.. We do this because we are around the lead all of the time. We try to strive to reduce lead exposure. We have exhaust fan over the lead to eliminate any fumes. I think we need to use common sense. We also have cows. When we work the cattle, sometimes it can't be avoided but we get cow manure on us. So treat lead like cow manure. Don't put it in your mouth. After working with it, wash your cloths, take a shower before you eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Good for you David. That all makes perfect sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoc Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 I have been pouring for 22 years. Cross vented to remove the heat. Checked many times and always normal. Here in Milwaukee the house have lead water lines. We are ordered to remove them....but the city line are lead and asbestos. Think they are removing those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topppher Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 I put a bathroom fan abouve my melter, witha pvc duct out the window to pull out the lead vapor. This is the most dangerous part of lead... inhaling it... I have only been pouring for about 2 years now, never checked it.... I smoke, drink way too much soda, and I am a welder... I have bigger things to worry about as far as getting tested is concerned. I always wash hands after handling lead, and I will stop to wash hands every couple of hours... You can start to feel it on your hands after a while, kind of a numb feeling on your finger tips... Or that could be the glue that I was working with... not real sure on that. I have talked to someone that has had lead poisoning... he is a big time lead pourer, or was... He gives me orders for 20,000 jigs a year now... go figure, he must really like me huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 If you are blowing the lead dust residue off your clothing all you are doing is putting it back into the air. Why not have two rooms built together where you disrobe in one, put your work clothes in an "approved" container and step into another room to put clean clothes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 This thread is exactly what I refer to in regards to having a true understanding of the metal, lead. First off - nova, I apologize if I offended you in any way. It was not intended. I do not have any initials after my name stating my education level (Dr.), however I can assure you I spend more time studying technical literature then most college professors, doctors, or engineers even know exist. Secondly - topppher, your understanding of lead is way off base, enough so I feel compelled to correct it. "This is the most dangerous part of lead... inhaling it... " - You need to remove that mind set - forever. Here's why: Lead, as we know it for melting purposes, can be composed of all or some of these metals - Antimony, arsenic, copper, gold, silver, tin, zinc, and amounts of many possible trace elements. In order to have vapors, one must first reach the boiling point of a metal. Lead boils at roughly 1750?C (3182?F), I highly doubt you are heating lead to that temp. just to pour fishing lures. The fumes coming off your melting pot are from the other metals ? of which very few people know which they are dealing with. Sure they stink, may make some people sick to their stomachs (from other metabular issues), but have nothing to do with over exposure to lead. As was stated briefly, the concern with lead one should have is with physical contact (or ingestion). And this can be narrowed down even farther to lead dust being the primary concern. Lead dust, even though considered a heavy metal with go airborne. It?s this point in time that humans are at risk ? they can bring lead into the body via breathing, opening the mouth (the lead will settle inside the mouth then be ingested), through the eyes, etc. ?Washing up? becomes very important due to this situation. I?m still researching just how much risk one has in handling lead that is ?bright and shiny?. This is a form of galvanic action, which is a protective covering over the lead. The amount of "shine" or galvanize is directly proportional to the zinc content of the lead you are using. (among other more detailed circumstances) I cannot say that handling this type of covered lead is any more dangerous then handling a piece of galvanized corrugated roofing sheet(s), for certain - but I am headed that way Take this post for whatever you deem it worth. I?ve been behind a lead pot for the better part of 25 years now, from a mentor that I joke with and say he was born in a cast pot. (63 years melting lead). I felt it necessary that I understood exactly what I am dealing with (like what is that gold film that I skim off the top of the lead -or- why does my lead turn black when it stays above 850? for more then an hour?). This is what I found as factual information, not just someone saying, ?lead isn?t safe to work with.? Bottom line as far as I?m concerned: don?t eat it, don?t give it any opportunity to get in your body in excess, and don?t be scared of it. If you are, take the time to educate yourself with what you are dealing with. I feel there is a difference between knowing something and understanding it. To understand lead and it?s dangers, you have to understand other topics just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Hey Dr Nimrod, just kidding, sounds kinda catchy, doesn't it. curious about your statement about the zinc. When I pour in an alum mold, my jigs shine, but when I spincast then in a silicone mold, depending on how smooth the cavities are, shine somewhat, but not as much as alum mold, using soft lead. I had some kind of weights that I thought were lead, but when I mixed then in with my lead, my lead became very slur py. I don't know how else to describe it. Someone suggested that it was zinc and that zinc would contaminate lead. I don't know. I was adding this at about 2 to 4 # per 100 # of lead. It would cling to everything, my ladle, pouring spout in my machine, and inside the molds. So I got rid of that batch and haven't added any more of that stuff. I have some zinc and stainless steel pot and ladles but haven't poured any zinc yet, but plan to. So, do you think zinc can be mixed with lead to make it shine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 No - if you want to make lead shine on purpose - add silver, and keep your liquid temperature under 700? - This causes the silver to convect to the surface of your lead mixture (which sounds like it is from wheel weights). Lead by design will oxidize rather quickly in atmospheric air (50% or higher humidity) - causing it turn that dull grey color. Scratch that top coat and you get shiny lead again........for awhile. Can you add pure zinc? Sure, but silver is much easier and you don't need other catalysts to make the reaction. Where do you get silver? Got a local plumbing house? Home improvement store? They sell rolls of soft solder (Sil-Stay) that have percentages of silver in them. It melts quickly, but also leaves you with that same light grey, almost plastic-like by-product............................................. Don't worry, it will go away if you increase your tin percentage................... That stuff sure is sticky isn't it...........makes for weak lead molds too.............bet you get powdery/porous lead if you were to squeeze one of your molded heads with a pliers.................. BTW - if that "lead-like" stuff was indeed wheel weights, are you certain they didn't have a plastic coating over them?The newer weights all seem to have it on - supposed to protect to clearcoat on the wheel(?) That's another possibilty that will give you "slurpy" liquid lead. Not to mention a real headache to pour properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted July 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 My approach to the whole think is simply common sense. I do like the definition of progress though. "progress"........man's ability to complicate the uncomplicated." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoc Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 Nimrod....... Your really off base here, on your lead additives. The soders are 96% tin, 4% silver. There are other soder mixes also. Tin will make pure lead pour. Pure lead will not pour and will act like it has tons of plastic like slag in it. Really oilly and hard to work with. Tin fixes that right up. Tin is what makes my lead shine like crome plating. Its addistion to the lead is what makes my lead have no shrink. The dull finish on the spin cast lead is a by product of the the casting process. Both the talc, and the silicone or rubber molds effect the finish of the lead. Make new molds with high polished/plated masters, with the higher grades of silicone. You will notice that you can not paint a fresh silicone cast jig with water based paint, that is because of the thin layer of talc/silicone on the lead's surface. Antimony is most likley the metal that you added to wreck that batch of lead. You can thin it down to working again, for larger casts. Just pour it in to bars and only add that batch as 10%(of the bad batch) to make harder lead. Been there done that, got some right now. If you pour a pure bar of it and dump as it sets it will shatter with a real grainy crystal patten in the broken mess. Sucks when you get some of that by mistake. Tire weights have all kinds of metal additives to harden then, heck have found sand in them. Any cleaner , road salt, oil, car wax, bird crap and such that gets on the tires is on the weights. By the way most guy will never want to add zinc. Pour pure Zinc if you like but adding it to lead is no help to you. It will get you a dull pattern and harden the lead. All you need to know can be found on the spinner caster sites, that sell the casting alloys direct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 This is interesting. These are just some of my opinions which could be wrong. When we hand pour we always want pure lead because it breaks off or easier to cut off. My wife has weak wrists and the hard lead hurts her writs. This includes Tin which is hard. Pure tin pours very good. In my spin-casting I want my lead hard so it will be brittle. The gate or spru hole I want it paper thin so when I take out the parts they break off easy. In hand pour the spru hole is bigger to let the lead gravity in and since the spru is thicker, it is harder to break off. I buy new lead with antimony because of its hard properties, so that is not what wrecked my batch of lead. The antimony also helps fill the cavities better when there are very small places to fill, mainly the little barb on a round head jig. I don't use tin to mix with lead because it is too high! I have used lead with 2% tin and have mixed some with tin and can't tell it makes any difference to the shine or to the fluidity of the mix. I also spin-cast bank sinkers. I only use scrap. It is usually very soft lead. They are easy to pour. I also use wheel weights only for bank sinkers. They have a white pasty color to them and are slightly lighter than regular scrap lead. I don't like wheel weights at all, but use them because they are cheap and available. When I make a new silicone mold I talc the mold the first time before I use it and after that never use talc again. Because of the way it makes the parts look. We also pour lots of Bismuth/Tin alloy and use talc a lot on those because of the design of the mold they don't fill as good and the talc helps the flow of the metal. I got most of my information from where I bought my spin-casting equipment and my observations. In my opinion the spin-casting equipment company knew more about casting parts other than fishing equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoc Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 dleary, Pure lead is real hard to find as scrap, but I have done it. Are you get your stuff from a alloy house, because it will look real oily and have shrink marks right in the brand new ingot bar. Pouring and cast properties are very diff. But I found that the best butter soft lead that I like will works for both. It has no shink to it. Pure lead will shrink like 4-14% when it cools to solid, even leaves a huge hole it the top of the pot when it cools to solid. The mixture I like will not shrink 1 mm. while cooling. Also the temps can be keep very low, tin melts around 420. I can/do pour split shot that can be pinched with your fingers. I cut all my gates with lead dikes, breaking is to hard on my hands. Pull they get dirty that way. I pour tiny jigs, and small things with it. I change the mix for all most each thing I do. Harder = larger. I do not want a spinner bait to bend while a fish is on it. When working with the antimony how are you keeping it in the mixture on the reheats? I have found it to slag right of the top from type like a foam. If I add tin this stops. Adding Tin to pure lead will cause the entire pot to look like instant silver. It stop/slows the oxidation process down to near nothing. How is the Bismuth if it gets in lead? I have no dealings with it.(well not on purpose) But have piles of the bars that will shatter if droped, and boy do they screw up a pouring batch. Hardens it beyond belief. Have you had any molds made with the new 0 shrink silicons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 I have no dross on the new lead w/12% antimony. I buy in 60 lb ingots and melt down and put in 12 lb ingots to mix with scrap. The new lead w/antimony has almost 0 dross when remelting. I get a certificate of analysis and it list dross at 4 tenths of a percent. the color of the new lead w/antimony looks the same as the scrap. It has a very shinny appearance. When pouring several molds we have lots of remelt, the center pieces of the mold after we break off the jigs, if I keep adding that back to the pot after a while I get lots of dross on top. I guess that is oxidized lead from adding back all of those small pieces. If I just add the 12 lb ingots, I get very littler dross. I don't seem to have any trouble keeping the antimony mixed with the lead, because when we count jigs, we use a counting scale and record the weight per 1000 pieces. Our weights are very consistent, so that tells me that the mixture stays mixed. Once I had a lot of Linotype and treated it as 10% antimony and it worked good using it that way. It had a shinny appearance. You was right about the shrink, my ingots have sunken in spots in the top. the harder has deeper holes. You asked about bismuth in the lead. When we pour lead free we sweep everything down because if we spill bismuth we don't want to mix it with lead because of economics. I have had some bismuth get mixed with lead by accident and it causes the lead to melt at a lower temp. It does makes it pour better, it is more watery, not as sluggish as lead. Pure bismuth melts at about 520 and tin is a little less, maybe 500. If you mix the 2 together and say 60 40, now this alloy will melt at 240. but when cast in a rubber mold it takes 2 to 3 times longer, than lead, for this to get hard. One other note on bismuth, it expands when it cools. when I put it in ingot molds, I can't get the bismuth out as easy as the lead. My ingot molds have slanted sides and when the lead cools and you turn them upside down, the lead falls out easy, but the bismuth you have to bang the mold to get it to come out. I would like to try the 0 shirnk silicone molds but am not convined that they will work. I hate to buy 10 molds just to try to see if they work. I think I talked to Rominoff and they had them. People at Tekcast didn't think they would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 You guys should familiarize yourselves with some of the lead recipes for reloaders...I first started pouring lead to reload with and there is a wealth of information all over the web on alloys, recipes, tech, etc. For some great reading checkout http://www.bullet-metals.com/ or http://www.theantimonyman.com/index.htm You guys should love these, JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbass1 Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I've been pouring lead for bullets and baits for over 20 years. I haven't always used common sense when pouring (small poorly ventilated sheds) but my lead levels have never been elevated. By the way I also clean gun barrels with mercury to remove the lead deposits and I haven't grown a third arm yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
