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balance revisited ?
14 replies to this topic
Posted 28 August 2005 - 03:42 PM
I've completed refurbishing eleven plastic baits so far...made some sort of mistake on nearly everyone of them...but have learned a lot in the process. I decided to move on to wood baits....primarily my Poe's cedar crank-baits. I've got about thirty to refurbish and started with a 300 series. once I got the paint and the 1/8Th inch thick primer coat off..I found the weight was not properly centered. Thought maybe that was done on purpose to make the bait sit straight. Well guess what...it doesn't. leans to the side that you would expect it to. My question is, is there an easy/simple/efficient way to correct this with out removing the belly weight? or should I drill out a little bit of lead at a time until it's centered? Would also like to know if anyone knows whether or not Poe's was relying on the primer to seal the wood or if they actually did it by dipping in the lacquer or what ever it is you all use to seal the wood before priming? This bait seems to have absorbed a lot of water for the minute or two it sat in my sink.
Posted 28 August 2005 - 07:31 PM
I try to leave the thick plastic undercoat intact on a Poe's. If you feel 3-4 hundreths of an ounce of extra finish won't hurt the action, just sand the existing finish smooth and paint over it. I assume the crank with the off center ballast is a poor performer and seldom catches fish. If so, anything you do to fix it is warranted, but I'd want to end up with about the same ballast weight. I'd drill it out until the bait floats level and then insert the same amount just in front of the existing ballast. Patch with wood filler.
Posted 28 August 2005 - 08:31 PM
Thanks Bob...whatever the thick under coat is...it ain't' plastic...maybe plaster(LOL). I've taken 3 down to the wood so far...tested the rest of the baits buoyancy and about half seem to be pretty well centered, most of the others lean to the left. one 400 leans right and my rc-1 well, it flops over onto it's right side....was surprised to see that. Quite honestly, I've never caught anything on any Poe's except for two small fish on an RC-1 or maybe it was an RC-3. That's my primary reason for refurbishing them, not to mention...finish cracked all over on half of them before I had ever used them, and the paint jobs are GAWD AWFUL. All these baits are between 10 and 15 yrs. old.
Posted 28 August 2005 - 10:30 PM
Maybe guys with longer memory can chime in but I've heard Poe's went through a couple of turns in quality, from good to bad and maybe back again. But they have alot more competition these days. I got a bunch of awful looking 400's and 400P's out of the $2 bin at Wally World when I first started refinishing/tinkering and I still have a couple of "highly tweaked" ones in my box though I don't often throw deep cranks. They were made in Guatemala or Mexico and had a very thick white undercoat that was pretty tough. Sometimes you CAN make a silk purse out of a sow's ear so I wouldn't hesitate to experiment on baits that aren't working for you. They'd eventually end up in the Bozo Bin otherwise.
Posted 28 August 2005 - 10:39 PM
In crankbait making there is not
to do anything! The baits were never sealed. They were dipped or sprayed with a thick white lacquer primer. The weight being off center is why "Real" crankbait fishermen pay top dollar to a professional crankbait maker for their baits. Or they learned through trial and error how to modify their own. This is also why Fritts use to say that he finds 1 in 100 that has the right characteristics that he requires. Mass produced baits just don't cut it. You can make those baits right. But you will have to go through the process of what weight, paint and clearcoat you are going to use. I have been modifying Bagley and Poes baits for about 4 yrs. now. Anytime that you remove something or add something then then everything changes. You have to figure and rework the whole equation. There is a reason why the finish on those baits is cracked. I have posted it on the site. Do a search for Poes. Poes from Wordens, has the thickest clearcoat that I have ever seen. I will tell you that it is a sprayed clearcoat. Their lips on the baits are no good either. As far as the RC-3 goes, did you have the hooks on the lure when you tested it? Lets not forget that the RC3 and RC1 has won a Classic. The wood that Poes uses will absorb water quickly. I have also put some posts on TU that talks about the water absorbtion of different types of woods. Make sure that the bait is completely dry before you work on it. Good luck.
Posted 29 August 2005 - 01:33 PM
Thanks Skeeter, I thought that was the case but have never gotten down into the "inner workings" of a crankbait. It either worked and I caught fish with it or I didn't use it again...explains why I got thirty different Poe's that I haven't tried to even thrown for ten years. Also explains why I have about $3000.00 in retail crankbait tackle. I don't know about where your from Skeeter...but around here, when I have fished in bass clubs or in some kind of tournament situation, people either don't know that there are custom crankbait makers or if they did they sure weren't going to share that information with the people they were competing against. That is partially why I decided to take this upon myself to learn as much as I can and understand deeper about what,how, when, and why some cranks work and others don't. I have some that catch fish in spring only. others seem to have a bigger range. Anyway again...thanks for the information on the Poe's stuff. I have read a lot of it but being unfamiliar with what I'm doing it's nice to be able to clarify and make sure I'm on the right track.
Posted 29 August 2005 - 07:19 PM
I live in Lexington, N.C. We do a little crankbait fishing around here. We have some guys that are pretty decent with a crankbait in this little N.C. town. Regardless if the crankbait is built correctly or is something special...... the number one thing that everyone has to remember is that you have to find the fish. Like Rick Clunn has said "There are no more secrets". There is no such thing as a secret bait. Only a correctly made bait and a sharp mind. Send me a PM or an email with your questions. I would be glad to help you out.
Posted 08 September 2005 - 08:02 AM
I have heard that y'all have a few guys around there that are handy with a crankbait!
Posted 13 September 2005 - 10:41 AM
speaking of balance, I see some people putting in belly weights and hooks now forward of center (closer to the lip). Curious about Skeeter's or other opinions of this.
Posted 13 September 2005 - 06:43 PM
Looks like we might as well call this the North Carolina-Missouri network.
Scoop, you may get an answer or response to this question but if you really want to know..........dig in and use the trial and error method. You will learn more about cranks that you ever thought imaginable. You might even stumble across something different that no one else is doing. Don't worry about the baits you waste, because the knowledge you gain from trial and error is priceless.
Posted 13 September 2005 - 07:17 PM
Speaking of wasting baits, I just made 8 crankbaits and the bodies were the same. A friend machined me some so I thought if I weighted them as close to the limit as possible for the slow rise and casting distance advantages I'd be set. Well if everthing turned out to be that easy I guess everybody could make quality baits. 3 of the 8 ran really nice and had the slow rise I was looking for. The other 5 had the "slow sinking" I was defintely not looking for. Chalk this up to trail and error. The first orignal bait I made was just what I was wanting , so I figured I could make them all like that. I guess I was pushing my limits a little too far. I had to crawdad and start over. I took my bellyweight put it in the mill and machined about .050 off and went from there. I guess the wood has different buoyancy's from piece to piece . I just finished a few more and planning on taking to the lake this weekend. So far they float nice and look balanced but the real test comes this weekend. Im learning this hobby more and more and find out I didnt know nearly as much as I thought I did
Posted 13 September 2005 - 07:27 PM
Man, what is it with you guys from N.C. ?????
Corey, you have just found the fine line that made the lures sink and rise slow. The first and best advice I can give you is to get yourself an accurate scale......and I mean accurate, so you can weigh every weight you place. It will be almost impossible to get the exact same amount of paint and clear on each bait so keep that in mind because more paint means more weight when you are getting that close to the fine line. Now that you have the accurate scale, the bodies themselves will have to weigh darn close to the same as well. I tip my hat, for trying this!!!!
Posted 13 September 2005 - 07:52 PM
From what I've found, sport fish tend to hit the bait a little closer to the head (vs. tail) and placing a hook closer to the head usually means better hook-ups.
Posted 13 September 2005 - 08:41 PM
Some put the weight a little more forward on the lure to give it a more forward or downward tilt. Mostly this is done to get the front of the lip under the water as it sits still in the water so that the lure starts to dig as soon as the reel handle is turned. Or it could be to give the lure the right attitude or angle as it is digging on the bottom. This is what you want a crank to do. If the lure has the action that you want and your hookups are not hindered, then go with it.
You are learning the right way. You are seeing what it takes to truely make a special crankbait. Tally, is the best person that I can think of that could help you do what you are trying. You see over a year ago he bothered the heck out of me wanting to learn the same thing. All I did was give him suggestions. He did the work and experimenting by himself. Now, he is one of the best that I know of that can really weight baits that close. I have some of his work and the baits do exactly what he says they will. He is a one of the best to learn what you are trying to do from. I think Tally needs to move to the Piedmont. He would be alot happier here. Common Tally, we have room in Lexington for you.
Posted 14 September 2005 - 12:40 PM
WOW!!!! Thanks for the compliments Skeeter......
I will help in any way I can, but you still have to put in the time to really learn what makes a crank tic!! I was a crank bait fishing fool and thought I knew a bunch about cranks......WRONG!!!! When I started making cranks is when I really starting learning and got educated. Yes Skeeter I did a bunch of experiments but with out a good (great) teacher like yourself, I would have given up on this long ago. The experiments created questions and you supplied me with different ideas or theories of what was happening............So don't sell yourself short on what you did for me!
An open invitation to move to N.C. ....... You would have me on the front porch everyday trying to learn some more Don't be surprised if you wake up one day and I am there.