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Random thoughts about bait building...
14 replies to this topic
Posted 04 February 2007 - 12:16 PM
For certain species, certain colors and patterns seem to perform better than others at certain times. That in and of itself seems random, but it seems to me that to a degree it is not.
Using bass for example...when hard baits (as one example) perform, they seem to perform with a pattern. Bass fishing shows discuss patterns constantly. If those patterns were shared with and by builders, better baits might be contrived by incorporating the best of the best patterns, which could increase the odds of success on given waters.
The so-called "pros" occasionally talk about this stuff, but they don't build baits. They discuss how this or that color seems to perform under this or that condition with some frequency. They also don't talk about this as much as they might, because of the monies involved in tournament fishing, sponsorship, and so on.
In the use of baits for other species, much less is discussed because those species are less popular and there is less written and provided by way of TV shows, etc.
Musky fishing which is much much less popular, is an area where sharing of color patterns, body configurations, lure speeds, and water column effectiveness, is largely a matter of one's personal experience as opposed to a collective process of elimination and sharing when compared to bass fishing (ironically).
Where am I going with all this? Just an observation really, but I do see gaps in what has been written and shared on the subject for the less popular species of freshwater fishing. I can't speak to saltwater fishing because I don't follow it.
At any rate, an observation of how things have progressed in the last 20 years or so within the world of freshwater fishing, seems to reveal gaps in communications. Maybe that's somewhat natural, but the gaps seem to be there none the less.
I musky fish. I've done all the other normal type so fishing and landed on musky fishing as a favorite. Often times I'll hear of people asking for help with the process of elimination in lure selection for musky fishing. It isn't easy to say, buy this magazine, or that book. Much less information is out there. With bass fishing there are veritable libraries of materials, DVD's, TV shows, and so on.
This forum also reveals a huge gap in other types of information, niches waiting to be filled. How many times has someone posted a question like, "I'm just getting started; is there a book on lurebuilding I can buy." Or, "Where can I find a book or websight devoted to beginning airbrushing techniques?"
Sounds like an entire enterprise waiting to happen, if you think about it.
I have no interest in making it happen. I'm content to build for fun, period. But I bet it will happen, sooner rather than later, because of the internet, and other advanced forms of sharing and disseminating information in ways that were unheard of just 20 years ago.
But, as Dennis Miller says, "then again, I could be wrong.":)
Posted 04 February 2007 - 09:17 PM
As far as some folks not sharing their ideas when it comes to lure selection I think that's just part of fishing and being a fisherman. We all have our "secret lure" or "secret color". If everyone knew what the best color was it would soon be overused and no longer "the best".
The gaps in lure-making are narrowing all the time. When TU first started and before that another tacklebuilding site I visited there was very little info to be had.....just the basics. With each passing day there is more and more info, more experimentation, more sharing.
When I first started building gliders about 4 years ago I wrote dozens of emails trying to find out how I should go about weighting them. I wrote all the big names here in the USA and most wouldn't even answer my emails. A couple would tell me the wood they used but that was it. I live in the Northwest and there aren't an glider builders around here to my knowledge and you can't buy gliders at any store. Eventually tho a very nice man in England told me how he weighted them and even sent me a pic, this is what got me started. I found a video of a glider swiming and then I knew what I was going to build.
Today if a guy spends enough time on this site and a few others you can learn exactly what woods to use, where to get all the parts you need, the clearcoat you need, the paint, etc., etc., You see guys here on TU post pics of "their first lure" that look better than many used to create on their 50th lure. There are still gaps in the building info I would agree but they are definitely getting smaller. And in some ways I think it's good that a person has to earn it. If it gets too easy then everyone will do it.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 03:05 AM
I agree with all the sentiments expressed above.
The world wide web is a wonderful thing for learning. If it was not for TU and the wealth of information, I would probably given up on this hobby long ago. TU isn't just about information, it provides the enthusiasm needed to continue through the failures and provides the eternal light at the end of the tunnel.
I agree with the 'earning it' statement to a certain extent, but, no matter how much information you put on the plate, the new lure designer has still an enormous amount to learn for himself. He is going to spend hours whittling firewood, feel a fool chugging his latest creation in the bath tub, trying to find a hint of the action he was hoping for, burn gallons of fuel travelling back and forth to the lake for testing. Why? Because we do not have all the answers to give him.
It amuses me when a new user posts for the first time and asks the big questions, 'Is their a formula for the lip', 'How do you calculate the weight location' etc. The same questions that I wanted answers to and no one could answer. In fact, I decided to make the quest for the answers to these questions a big part of my hobby as well as designing the lure that swims how and where I want it to. The big questions are complex and need to be broken down into smaller problems, I have had some success on the way, as I have had with my lure designs. I would post my results if I could just finish something.
I digress, but the point that I am working around to is that most of you have been designing lures for many years and no doubt have made some neat discoveries, come up with some unique techniques, novel ideas, new construction methods etc. I know I have. Many of you will be thinking why should I share this with anyone.
Their is only one justification for not bringing the new stuff to the table and that is you intend to use the invention or idea to make a business. I can totally respect that and have considered the same with my ideas. I have decided that a business is not the route that I am going to take and so will be bringing my ideas, humble as they may be, to the table.
Others will be thinking, if I publish this idea, someone is going to use it and make money from it and I won't get anything. True, you probably won't get any money for the idea, but you will get more than you are receiving at the moment. You will get the credit for the idea and the respect of your peers. The biggest names in lure design scan this site, whether they are members or not, trying to find new ideas. Every time the new lure incorporating your idea is discussed by the site, the knowledgeable ones will remember whose idea it was and someone will make reference to that fact. That I would consider success and feel proud of my achievement and recognition.
So I say, if you do not intend to make a business from your idea, bring it out. There is no justification for hoarding it to be printed on your grave, nobody reads gravestones.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 10:53 AM
I like your approach Vodkaman...Nobody reads gravestones.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 11:01 AM
Same here!.. Personally, I get a hoot out of sharing info with you guys.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 11:46 AM
Just make sure you send the ideas to me first Vodkaman!! :)jed
Posted 05 February 2007 - 12:49 PM
Actually, the info won't be on the gravestone either!
Posted 05 February 2007 - 01:07 PM
Rest in Pease Mr. McGuire
he past on while bending 19 ga. wire.
We were sure he was dead
after he installed the lead,
because it anchored his balsa
to the bottom of his salsa.
I would stop and read that in the graveyard.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 01:29 PM
I must respectfully disagree with the open sharing of all information. It has nothing to do with most of the people using this board most of it has to do with the fact that major manufacturers are using this very same message board and stealing ideas and designs.
I'm sure they have plenty of moles here as well. Be careful of those who seem to have alot of knowledge in some lure building areas and almost none in other areas and have never posted a lure picture showing their work. If a major manufactureer steals your idea rest assured all you will get out of it is the shaft.
Now I have no problems helping sombody who is truly stuck but the best tool we all have is still trying and anylizing when it comes to our own designs.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 01:52 PM
"Wow, great-grandpa fatfingers died before we were even born."
"Yea, looks like he used that furnace foil for his grave stone, but he was still using the old style scaling materials; people don't keep up on things when they get old."
"I wonder how he got that shading effect on the letters?"
"Probably a stencil, but its hard to tell, the Devcon has yellowed so much."
Posted 05 February 2007 - 01:59 PM
You are absolutely right to be suspicious of me. I have not posted a single picture or shown any of my work. I have demonstrated a lot of knowledge in some areas, mostly to do with my engineering background and research that I have done on this subject over the last three months. I have no doubt demonstrated a severe lack of knowledge in some areas also, despite trying to keep my mouth shut and learn.
I haven't shown any work yet for two reasons. I do not have my camera with me, I am working away from home. The second reason is, I have nothing to show as yet, but I am getting close. Hopefully, when I do, I will convince you of my sincerity.
I have, however already posted three unique designs and furthered the general knowledge of how the lure actually works. You may not consider the designs to be hugely ground breaking, but you cannot deny that they are original. Not the kind of thing you would expect from a mole. On the other hand, they could be three ideas that my company has rejected and are throwing them out to you to convince you that I am genuine.
I assume you are a privateer as you are not showing a link at the bottom of your post. We are both in the same situation. You are obviously keen to further your knowledge as well as helping others on the way, you are an avid contributor and I have learned much from your posts.
It is such a shame that your very best ideas will never see the light of day.
Tally, what info would that be then?
Posted 05 February 2007 - 02:19 PM
Vodkaman, I don't really think he was referring to you. But please don't sprain the elbow on your casting arm patting yourself on the back, it is still early in the fishing season. I have lurked here for 3-4 years and have never posted a pic. and by no means do I think he was referring to me either as much as I would like to. But I'm sure that there are mfg. designers lurking here to steal info. There are a few items that I don't offer either. It's like the endless thread that was started before the server went down stated. You learn more when given the basics and you apply and adjust from there. I have and could tell the board every measurement and weight and location of my best lure down to the 10th of a gram. From there you could make a pretty unique crankbait, but the user will then have learned nothing. It would be like tracing a piece of art, you would have a copy of a pretty picture but still won't know how to draw.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 06:16 PM
Guys share info according to their generosity, commercial intentions, ego, paranoia, openmindedness or whatever else winds their clock. That won't change but fortunately there are enough generous builders and enough different opinions on TU to make it both fun and worthwhile to participate.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 06:53 PM
BobP; I agree with your notes! Several have been very generous in sharing ideas for which I am very thankful. Most real professionals (in serious business) I suspect have learned thru hard knocks. I first learned of this site by calling Dave Hughes a couple of years ago; he is (I suspect) one of the best and was gracious enough to answer my early questions. This is a characteristic I have noticed with bass fisherman; the better they are the more apt they are to share information with others.
Its actually difficult to copy someone elses art work and anyone worth his salt is going to develop his own "stuff." Thanks again to all of those who have helped me relieve many process frustrations.
Posted 05 February 2007 - 07:16 PM
You were correct, he was not referring to me. It was silly of me to think that he was, oops.