lurerookie

Router Question

31 posts in this topic

I noticed in Tally's "addiction" post that all of the lures were very uniform. Almost like the edges were run through a router and then sanded. Being pretty new to this and only using cedar thus far I have been rounding the edges of my baits with a Dremmel and each seems to take on its own subtle personality...never seem to have three that are exactly the same. So my question is do any of you rough out your baits with your band/scroll saw and then uniformly round off the edges with a router before going at them with the sand paper and Dremmel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i make baits 4.5 inch's and larger and use a router on all of them to shape the edges.after cutting with the bandsaw, i sand the edges then run them over the router which is mounted in the bench then it's just a quick sand and they are done,ready for weighting etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Routers can be used on larger baits with extreme caution.

A router spins at near 30,000 rpm. this can grab wild or end grain of the lure and pull your hand instantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good question for discussion. I use a table router for my 7 and 9" gliders. The smaller stuff gets your fingers way too close to a spinning blade for my comfort. I drop down to a handheld laminater trimmer holding the bait on a rubber mat and running the router around it. When It gets smaller than 3" and 3/8" thick, I use a dremel with an adapter that uses small router bits. Had to mke a round insert to fill the gap between the bit and the bottom of the housing. http://www.dremel.com/en-us/attachments-and-accessories/attachment-accessory-detail.htm?H=188575&G=69679&I=69795 Use a router bit intead of the cutter.

Rotary cutters work too if you make a base for them. I will try to get a picture to show you if you want. One note, the ball bearing type router bits can be too long to allow rounding on a flat surface. The carbide follower type can be trimmerd to keep a little clearance between the bit and the table you are holding it on.

Makes great rounded edges and very little hand sanding.

Jerk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A router spins at near 30,000 rpm. this can grab wild or end grain of the lure and pull your hand instantly.
The smaller stuff gets your fingers way too close to a spinning blade for my comfort.

Cheesehead and Jerkbait are correct. The router can be extremely dangerous. If I had to rate common woodshop tools in terms of danger, the table saw would be first, and the router second! Whatever you do, never attempt to run the wood "backwards" through the router. In other words, if the router is mounted upside down under a table, never pass the wood from left to right, or against the turn of the bit. You ONLY want to pass the wood WITH the direction of bit rotation. PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY, AS IT MATTERS WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE USING THE ROUTER IN A UPSIDE-DOWN TABLE MOUNT, OR FREEHAND POSITION!

By downsizing the horsepower and size of the tool (using the dremel router table/bits) you minimize the risk of losing digits, at least on the small baits.

I'm sure that others here have used them with great results, but I find the risk of the router unnecessary. Having said that, I'm sure particular bait styles make the router indispensable, especially for production levels.

Tally probably did use the router to achieve the regularity in the blanks. Perhaps he'll correct us if this assumption is incorrect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my router has the ability to turn the speed down and i normally run it at about 15000 rpm which seems to make it slightly more user friendly although as others have said they are a potentially dangerous piece of kit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The safest way to use a router and the best way to faithfully reproduce your desired shape is to create templates and use the guide bush system.

Most routers are sold with a guide bush. This item is usually examined by the excited new owner for about 5 seconds and then cast back into the box from whence it came, just incase it was important. Never mind the instructions, lets plug it in and feel the power arrh arrh arrh!

Using the template/guide bush technique, your fingers need never approach within twelve inches of the cutter.

The down side is that you have to accept more waste material. If you try to squeeze just one more blank from your stock sheet, the fingers get closer and accidents happen.

I am hoping that one of the experienced professional wood artists will step in and give us a tutorial in template routering techniques. I did a search on the web, everyone has a book on the subject, no one is giving the knowledge away for free. I am prepared to post my own thoughts and methods, but I am by no means an expert and I am afraid of leading you down the crooked path that leads to the emergency room.

Scribing a line and offering it up to a router bit should be a criminal offence, it is that dangerous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been lucky so far. I have had a smaal piece of oak kick back and fly away, but still have all 10. I build muskie baits so far so my lures are at least 6 inches. The smaller ones have waste, so my fingers are far away. The larger ones have enough wood to grap that I just move my fingers around on the large piece of cedar. I use a router table after bandsawing to shape. Next purchase will be a table saw to cut slots for the lips. Opened the top of my thumb on a table saw once. Thankfully the blade was only up an 1/8" or so. Crosscut blades make an ugly wound. Ointment and a bandage and I was good to go. Be careful !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All power tools can be dangerous. one thing we all must do prior to using any tool is ask ourselves "What If". Think Your entire process through and consider not only what will happen if things go the right way but more importantly what will happen if they go wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is from the Striper Board. The method seems saner than placing digits near a router blade. JMHO

Husky, when I made them from ayc I started with 2X2 which I cut down the middle to get 2 3/4 x 1.5" pieces.

I picked up 3/4 x 3 1/2 x 8, there is a center line going down the middle on one side, i cut off a piece a couple of feet long and then cut it lengthwise on the bandsaw right on that line dividing it into 2 3/4 X 1.5" pieces that were roughly 2 feet long. This gave me stock similar to what I was using before.

Then I just lay out the template alternating them from one side to the other, belly of the hook on the outside of the board. Run it over a 3/8 round over bit on both sides and now the bottom of the plugs are round. Drill the holes for weight and belly hook, then cut down the middle

between the 2 rows of plugs, kind of get 2 long s shaped curved pieces. Run the curves over a belt sander to smooth out the saw blade edges from the bandsaw, and then back to the router table to curve over the tops of the plugs.

From there you just cut the indiviual plugs off and then you just need to sand the shape of the head on the belt/disk sander and thru drill.

Yes these are thru drilled, and it drills really easy. And the stuff cuts easier on the bandsaw than wood. Really theres only 2 downsides to it that I can see.

1. it does smell when you work with it

2. the sawdust is plastic and needs to go to the dump rather than into the fireplace.

Here's a link with the pictures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice. I may be sticking with the slower method for a bit longer since I don't really have to worry about large numbers. I do have a Dremel Router table that I picked up at a Sears closeout special pretty cheap. I use it to hold the drum sander roughly perpendicular so I can square things off when I don't get a good initially. You can set the bit to be pretty far recessed. I'm wondering if it would be worth a try if I slow the speed of the Dremel way down. I have an XPR and it seems like there is a pretty wide range of speeds. I would be interested to hear if there is an early line on whether my next post is with all digits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd put my money on you not losing a bit of skin. The key is that you are aware of the dangers and respect the tool. But even those that respect can screw up. Just be careful. I think when you're talking Dremel router table you're much safer than the full size style. Like others said, always think, what can happen if this goes wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible to cut out a large musky-bait size lure on a router table from square stock using a bearing tipped bit and a template, or even an overarm pin set-up? Or would this be too violent and either ruin the router/bit or jerk the wood away from you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Routers are sold with a detachable plate. Most do not understand its purpose, but it is precisely for the purpose that you describe. I have designed many tools (for my own use) for cutting out multiple parts.

The template butts up against the template and acts as a guide. The template has to be smaller than the profile that you are cutting. Examination of your equipment and some trial cuts will help determine the design of the template.

As suggested on a previous thread on the same subject, several bodies can be cut in one operation. This increases the blank size and allows more distance between your valuable fingers and the merciless cutting blade.

Routers are a fantastic tool but total respect must be given. Beware of cutting across end grain and always be aware of the cutting direction. Mistakes WILL be made, just make sure your fingers are not near the cutter. If a guard is provided with the equipment, USE IT. When everything seems to be going smoothly, this is the time to beware!

Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doomdart,

I read your post twice, and I think you have it backwards. I'm not trying to start anything here at all. But, you ALWAYS want to feed stock AGAINST the rotation of the router bit. For one you have a better finish and two you have much better control of the workpiece. If feed with bit rotation, your material could be snatched out of your hands. This comes from 25 years experience operating a router.

Again, I'm just trying to clear this up, and I may have misunderstood your directions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I build bass baits as small as 1 5/8". No routers for me! However, you can do a pretty accurate job with a Dremel sanding drum and a high speed cutting cylinder IF you mark off areas to be removed with a compass. If you hand build them, you should be marking a centerline around the bait anyway to get the hardware centered. It only takes a few seconds to mark the sanding guidelines too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think another thing that must be considered is experience and your own abilities and limitations. If you have little or no experience with a router (like me) its probably best to take a little extra time and use a belt sander or some other method.

I spoke with a man who taught wood shop for a living. We discussed the idea of inverting the router and mounting it properly for the application being discussed on this thread. He mentioned experience and each person's own inherent limitations, etc., but the thing he said that stuck with me was, "A router can be one of the most dangerous tools in a shop if not used carefully and properly. An inverted router is certainly near the very top of the list of dangerous tools."

The idea makes me nervous, so that tells me that I should probably choose to avoid it, if possible. I love everyone of my fat fingers. I use most of them too.:lol:

I know that others are far more experienced than I am with the router, so that's a different story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been using this for years, (see Hazmail post)

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10621&page=4

No way would I put my little digits near a router, they do not know the difference between bone and wood and will keep eating.

I only make 2" AND 3" baits but for larger baits, just make a larger sanding wheel, the most you can lose is a bit of skin, which, over the years, I have managed to avoid. pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could make a two-sided jig but that'd probably be tough. If I was going to use router, I'd probably cut out a templaye out of at least 3/4", screw it to teh bench, and use a laminate trimmer with a trimming bit to cut the lure out. Don't take the laminate trimmer for granted, they spin just as fast as any plunge router.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I designed a swivelling laptop table. To make prototypes, I had to do a lot of routering. I did not fancy the 'cutter up' table, so I designed a 'cutter down' table, with the fixed router mounted in the lid. When the lid was lifted, a micro switch isolated the power. When the lid was down, it was physically impossible to get near the bit. You were working blind, but that is not a problem when using the template method.

The 6kg router made the lid very heavy, so I designed a dampened cantilever system, so the lid could be opened with only light force and could be released and it would not slam down. It contained more design than than the laptop table I was trying to prototype!

Now that the lid mounted table has been proven, if I was to router small parts, like lure bodies, I would definately go the same route again. Not the most convenient tool to use, but, like fatfingers, I am really attached to my digits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hand held routers with piloted bits are much safer than router table, which are just small shapers. At least, with your hands on the router, you fingers are up and out of the way.

I've seen shaper throw materials 50' in a shop. Router tables, while smaller, can still throw a piece of wood back into you with penetrating force. Read spear or arrow.

As was stated earlier, ALWAYS feed against the rotation of the bit, so the cutter is coming toward the work, or you will have the work snatched out of your hand and hurled somewhere you don't want it to go.

And always use sharp bit. Nothing is more dangerous than a dull tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pete

How did you make that double roundover bit? I looked at some shaper bits that were double roundover, but couldn't find anything in router size. Did you start with a stock bit of some sort and do some calculated mutilation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Double round over bits are very common. Just go to a woodworking store, or site online. Piloted carbide bits are the way to go. Shape your lure, sand it smooth on the edge, and set the bit so you keep a little of the smooth to ride the pilot on. I prefer 1/4 round bits, so I can use the actual lure for the pattern, instead of having to attach a pattern. But if you're into production, the pattern and 1/2 round bit could be the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wayupnorth36 - As Mark said you can buy them any where, specialist woodworking tool shop would be best place to start and carbide is the way to go. pilot bearing follows the pattern. I used to do them in 2 or 3 passes ( in cedar). pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now