Jump to content
16 replies to this topic
Posted 24 February 2007 - 08:38 PM
I have been try to sort out the difference in the paints. My goal is to find a paint that will shoot through a fine nozzel/needle at low pressure for fine lines. I was going to try lacqure. I have seen that some of you use enamel as well. I have concluded that createx because it is water based and has a heavy pigment wont work well.
I went to the NAPA store today and the guy told me that the paints they mix for automotive applications have acrylic in them and very little lacqure.
I checked out WACO taxidermy paints and noticed their paints are called polytranspar. They come in a solvent base or a waterbase. Polytranspar is some sort of artifical water with a resin as far as I could tell by my research. They have a product for painting scales, they state in the product they use an extender that keeps the paint from drying on the needle as it passes.
Does anyone know the science behind the paints and can explain their pros and cons. I am wondering if there is an extender that can be used to cut down the stickyness of the paint to the neddle, make it slip. It has to slip then stick to the lure.
I found some guys use alchol in their thinner solution because it evaporates fast and allows the paint to stick to the lure.
Posted 24 February 2007 - 10:08 PM
Paint is made from three components. Pigment, binder, and a liquifier. The binder is any number of things such as latex, enamel, acrilyc, viynl. Certain binders only solidify in solvent and not water. Some solidify in both. From the sounds of your post ,you are looking to slow the dry rate ,evaporation, of the liquifier to prevent it from clogging your needle. Extenders are basically wetting agents and slow down evap. times. One of the best wetting agents that every one has easy access to is detergent. examples are windex, dish soap and a variety of other detergent based products. The best bet in my opinion for you would be to hobby acrilyc thinned with clear windex for your fine lines. There are no magic formulas for keeping paint from clotting up however. When you use hobby acrilycs you will need a good clear coat. Ideallly epoxy. Hope this helps.
Posted 25 February 2007 - 12:06 PM
im no expert by my 2 cents worth. what I would like to know is how compatible the varrious paints are with the final 2part epoxy clear coat. I have had some nice comercial stuff and home brew lose their pait job and peel. im new to this artform, and would also like more info on painting. ive checked the old forms etc, but there doesnt seem to be one good how to for the beginer. ive airbrushed lures, but nothing serrious. would like to get the right stuff to build some actual fish catching,(ahmm yes prety, people catching) lures. I dont want to spend a grand on a lure im sticking on the wall either. any cheep sources of good usable paint recomendations.
also I have read that enamles, acrylics, acrylic enamles, urathanes, oils, all have very different final characteristics, as far as bonding, and hardness. I believe if my memory is right, the slower setting enamles, are some of the hardest, and the acrylics, are the softest with the lowest bonding strength. .. is there anyone that is well versed in the science of the polymers involved that could straighten me out?
also what is the deal with blending varrious different types.
thanks for any recomendations.
Posted 03 March 2007 - 05:26 PM
I have used Polytranspar with excellent results. Don't forget to try the shimmers/pearls ,they really give a life like look. The expoxy does not affect the water based version that I have used. The painting schedules are worth the investment.
Posted 03 March 2007 - 08:06 PM
Cherry, I'm curious what you used as a clear coat. I tried polytranspar also and for some reason it didn't react well with etex. I know of others tho that seem to use the stuff just fine. Curious.
Posted 03 March 2007 - 09:33 PM
I use Dick Nite over Polytranspar, and have used D2T over it as well
Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:44 PM
Ok cherry, You use the water base polytranspar. Are you able to get real fine lines with a fine needle. The poly comes in lacqure have you tried it as well.
Posted 04 March 2007 - 02:50 AM
If you are having trouble with clogging when trying to do fine lines, try some retarder in your paint. It will stop the paint from drying on the tip and will make it easier to do detail. I also use polytranspar paint from Wasco (water based) and never have a problem. I top coat with Devcon, works fine.
Posted 04 March 2007 - 11:21 AM
I rely on stencils for fine lines and sharp edge designs. Freehand? Maybe an airbrush master illustrator can but it requires more than the right equipment and paint, especially since you have to do exactly the same thing twice - once for each side. I've decided that's always going to be beyond my limited talents!
Posted 04 March 2007 - 03:54 PM
I use Flex Coat Rod wrapping finish to coat the lures. Just make sure that you use equal amounts measured in a disposable measuring cup like the ones they give you for cough medicine. If you don't ,there will be problems in the epoxy drying properly. I also let the lures dry for at least 24 hours before coating. Why ruin a beautiful paint job because we are in a hurry? I have not use the lacquer because I have children and I don't want to take a chance especially when you can get such fine results with the water based paint. I have talked to a friend that uses the lacquer on his taxidermy mounts and he loves it because it dries so fast. I also find that this Flex coat is much easier to work with when it is warm. The stuff comes in plastic bottles and I soak the unopened bottles in hot water. This makes the consistency much easier to work with and spread over the lure. I am still searching for the Holy grail of "fine lines" that you have asked about so I bought an Iwata airbrush.
Posted 04 March 2007 - 11:58 PM
Thanks for your answer Cherry. RJ "retarder" what do you use as a retarder and for what type of paint. There is a lot of chemistry in this painting. Some are using a couple of drops of dish soap, alchol and water. I have heard windex works too for the acrylics. What is a extender for lacqure, or water based poly transpar. I have also decided for now to try and make some stenciles. I want to try and do them with the brush to improve my skills, but it appears to be futile unless you can get the right mix.
Posted 05 March 2007 - 02:31 PM
Thanks RJ, In my previous post I put extender for lacqure I meant retarder. I saw on the WACO site their scale paint included a retarder to assist in the flow.
Posted 11 March 2007 - 10:45 PM
Hi All, new to the site..Great place for sure..Thought I might chime in on this thread.I make about 200-300 wood lures a year for sale, & restore old wood lures for collectors too..I paint with enamels, the small bottled hobby store brand "Model Master".. For restorations I clearcoat with a high grade automotive enamel clear with hardener added, comes out beautiful, high gloss, no clouding or yellowing..I do everything with an airbrush.. For lures that are to be fished, I clearcoat with a 1 part epoxy called Top Secret MFG'd out of Canada.. The 1 Step I dip my lures into, its thinned w/the MFG's recommended thinner at a 50-50 ratio so it wont go on too thick for curing..Kinda makes it a 2 step doesnt it!..haha..I use a rotator wheel as well.. You can thin it for airbrush use, I have tried it, it sprays ok & cleans up good, but I always have problems w/the finished surface having tiny pinhead pointers when I use the airbrush.. But it works great for dipping!..Ive used the waterbased paints, never cared for 'em, but do like the results I get from Model Masters enamels..
I have questions tho too..Im puzzled on how you folks can brush your epoxy on by hand without the paint softening up and smearing.. Maybe thats where my enamels are different and/or less desirable.. I know if my epoxy wet lures even touch the edge of my dipping jar when removing them from the dip jar, the paint rubs off..But I got around that by pre-sealing my works w/enamel clearcoat prior to epoxy dipping.. The epoxy doesnt seem capable of softening the hardened enamel clearcoat.Its an extra step but I can get my lures epoxy coated & thats what counts.. Thought about trying the Devcon 2 ton but Im afraid I'd still need to sealcoat w/enamel first..So how is it that your paints dont soften when brush coating epoxy & mine do?.. Just the enamels doing that or do other people have the same problem?
Hey great site, enjoy reading the threads~
Posted 11 March 2007 - 11:16 PM
Sorry I can't help with your question, but you seem to have it well 'covered' with the clearcoat solution.
I would, however, like to see a full size pic of your avatar, that looks a really interesting bait.
Posted 11 March 2007 - 11:51 PM
OLM, Many epoxies come pre-thinned with solvent which can begin to disolve solvent based colors when brushed on. This includes Envirotex Lite, a table-top epoxy popular among builders here on TU, as well as many of the rod guide epoxies. The solvent thinned epoxies usually do fine over latex paint. I've never seen a true one part epoxy. Devcon 2 Ton is also popular. It's a glue epoxy with a medium slow cure rate and very good leveling properties. Devcon is considerably more viscous than most clearcoats and it cures to a thick clearcoat. Some like that, others don't. Since it doesn't contain solvent, Devcon is among the most "fool proof" epoxies. I don't like it for restorations but it works well on original wood crankbaits.
Posted 12 March 2007 - 05:27 PM
thanks for the input.. Yes with the Top Secret Im using, it must be thinned to use, no getting around it.. So at a 50-50 ratio it is probably 10 times more likely to soften the paint..Im glad you mentioned Devcon2 having no solvents, as I wasnt aware of that.. I tried to get some today but my local True Value hardware only had the small tubes & suringes of the 2 Ton.. The founder of Musky Snax told me about Nu-Lustre55, he says he brushes it on & it goes on thick.. I like a thick single coat if possible & thats not possible with Top Secret, it has to be layered in thin time consuming multiple coats..I dont mind double dipping small lures like my surface plunkers, but big lures for Pike,musky,stripers, I want a thick coat..My new line of lures Ive just started making are 8"-10" plugs, I think one thick protective coat with a brush makes more sense than trying to dip that big plug several times.., If I can find the Devcon2 locally I'll try it before ordering Nu-Lustre online..Thanks again..