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Posted 04 March 2007 - 12:34 PM
On occassion I will get small dimples in the etex finish, picture attached. In this case the dimples were when I put one coat of etex over another. I normally just go over the top with another coat but it's very annoying! I'm not sure if it's caused by my hands touching the lure, the brush, or just what, any thoughts?
Posted 04 March 2007 - 09:31 PM
Looking at the picture, it's definitely contamination not allowing the coating to stick. It's called "fish-eye". You could try wiping it down with alcohol before re-coating it, but the best way to prevent it is to not touch the lure at all from the time it's painted until all the epoxy coats are done. Also, you could try rinsing your brush in alcohol or something before using it(letting it fully dry) and don't try and re-use brushes. It probably isn't coming from the brush, but it doesn't hurt to rule everything out.
Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:23 PM
At times I have a similar problem with Devcon 2 ton. An easy fix I have found is taking a hair drier on low, and using it to smooth out the epoxy. If you have a fish eye, blow some epoxy over it with the hair drier and it should stay covered. The hair drier is a great way to get a smooth finish. Hope this helps.
Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:29 PM
Actually if I cover the dimples they will just reappear. The only way to get rid of them is to apply another coat...that seems to be the trick. I'm sure it's something on the surface, it has to be. Maybe JK is right it's coming from my hands. I try to not touch the lures though.......hmm.
Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:45 PM
Ever hear of Amine blush? This is a waxy coating that some epoxies develope as they cure. Generally if you re-coat when the first layer is still "green" (less than 12 hours) it has not had a chance to develope. If you are recoating fully cured epoxy I recommend a light sanding between coats (use a scotch-brite pad).
Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:36 AM
Hmmm....that's interesting CH, have never heard of that and this would explain why I get it sometimes and other times not at all. I am generally applying the stuff after a "full cure" so maybe you are on to something. I will experiment with this idea, thank you!
Posted 05 March 2007 - 04:22 AM
Jed, Cheesehead is spot on with that amine blush. There is a ton of information on the web about this. Search for amine blush, non-blushing epoxy or epoxy blush, u'll have a few days of winter reading
Amine blush manifest as greasy, waxy layer or in worse cases a whitish film. They are salts of amine carbonate. Depending on the type and formulation of the epoxy, amine compounds on the surface combine to various degrees with CO2 and water in humid air forming hydrates of amine carbonate. Although they are suppose to be water soluble, only effective removal is by abrasive.
If you re-coat before the prior coat is completely cured, the new epoxy will dissolve the top layer of the 'old' coat and fuse 'chemically'. But if let cured, then even non-blushing epoxies will only let you get a mechanical bond between the 2 layers. Sanding is highly recommended to provide bite (and cleaned surface, since most epoxies we use does blush) and a stronger mechanical bond.
I would go with subsequent coats b4 full cures, a chemical bond ensures you have a continuous epoxy layer instead of individual layers.
Time to rethink some coating procedures? .
Posted 05 March 2007 - 04:57 AM
Thirty six thousand entries on the web search and we've only just discovered it! Nice one Cheesehead.
There is a lot of discussion on the web regarding Fiberglass Surface Prep YMA601, I don't know anything about its effects on the paint. Also, many of the sites say that sanding does not remove the amine blush.
Some very interesting reading out there on application techniques. One that caught my eye, was application of a solvent after applying the epoxy to help reduce orange peel.
Dipping or applying some solvent to the fresh coat of epoxy could reduce the surface tension enough to solve the problem. Has to be worth a test piece.
Posted 05 March 2007 - 06:46 AM
contamination. thats the thing. happens once and a while here also. to me it seems an oil bledd from somwhere
Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:48 AM
That's what I have thought too Woodie because the problem is generally more pronounced with cedar than it is with maple. The thing that's confusing tho is how it happens with an etex coat over an etex coat.....this makes me think that CH and Lapala might be on to something. I will keep experimenting.....
Posted 05 March 2007 - 10:28 AM
"The problem is generally more pronounced with cedar than it is with maple".
Well there has to be a reason for that. Picking up some cedar oil with the brush while applying the first E-tex coat, which manifests itself when a second coat is applied on top of it, is the first thing that makes sense to me then, within the context of the higher cedar probability. If that is the case, an alcohol wipe before hand will cure the problem. I know you use Zinser as a primer/sealer, but I've seen a small amount of old glue residue go through 2 coats of that on a window sill like it wasn't there...or perhaps somewhere in the process of your cedar lure you end up touch contaminating your first E-tex coat. And it only takes a minute amount of surface contamination to ruin coating adhesion. I guess there is no possibility of any airborne contamination from a spray can of something in your work area?
Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:59 AM
Hey, join the club. Do a search for my name and you will pick up some awesome links and tips about epoxy coats and fish eyes. The guys here really helped me to reduce my epoxy problems but not eliminate them totaly. I have tried everything under the sun to eradicate these flaws but still do battle everytime I coat a lure. One thing is for sure you will get a better coat in sunny California than you will in Northern Europe:) .
Posted 05 March 2007 - 05:48 PM
Take a Q-tip soaked with laquer thinner, and clean the spots.
Do not leave any fuzzy though as the finish will get gooey.
Make shure to let dry to touch as not to trap any of the thinner.
Then patch coat them.
Posted 05 March 2007 - 07:59 PM
Hey Rich!! Good to hear from you, I was thinking about you the other day, I hope you are doing well.
Dean, I have probably been a bit careless at times with touching the lures after the cedar...will watch this and see if it helps.
I have most recently been using polycrylic as my sealer woodie...just because I had a gallon of it left. Typically tho I used sanding sealer as you know.
As an experiment I just did two baits just now and I made sure I didn't touch either of them anywhere! I had latex gloves on at all times. Each of them has one fisheye but it looks to be small.
I wrote the folks at ETI/Etex and this is what they told me:
"Try applying a couple of layers of a clear acrylic aerosol to the lures first; there may be something in the paint that is a resist to the
coating. From the photo it looks just like it may be a contaminant if it isn't a late breaking bubble. Only wipe with alcohol or acetone b4 re-coating".
Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:31 PM
I think it is still it may be air borne particules.
I know for shure it is not late breaking bubbles.
Posted 06 March 2007 - 07:01 PM
Well I don't want to be over optimistic but it looks like the problem may be solved. I think it was simply contamination. Time will tell for sure because it wasn't happening all the time but for now there looks to be improvement!!