titowoody Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I have come to love Tungsten for my Texas Rig worm waits. Tungsten is twice the density of steel therefore half the size. A 1/4oz tungsten is the size of 1/8oz lead, this reduction in surface area makes for a quick deep diving weight, great for Drop Shoting. The greater density also creates a distinctive clicking sound when bounced over rocks. I am a firm believer in lateral line detection and lead has a dull thunk compared to what I know refer to as the dinner bell worm weights. Parasite makes a neat product but only small sizes of Tungsten. A lot of Tourny guys would like to see a bigger Tungsten, would be much quicker to punch through the late summer slop. Was a bit shocked to see the melting point of Tungsten @ 3400C. This will require a mini blast furnace setup. Curious to see if any other TU'ers have dabbled into pouring Tungsten. The spot price on Tungsten is also quite high which translates into the much higher cost. In Cananda we might as well start getting ready now for a ban on lead is looming, just like lead shot ban for waterfowl. It is already in effect in all The Federal Parks. Time to look into Ye Olde Blast Furnace. Cheers TW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dampeoples Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I think the cost of pouring Tungsten takes it out of the loop for just about all of us here, we'll have to develop something else, or suck it up and buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Did a little research on alternatves to lead, too. Like many here with all the lead bans & such. Tungsten had it's obvious draw backs for the small time operation or home builder. If you do a search on E-Bay there's some sources for tungsten pellets & epoxy mixes that might be an alternatve. I just never followed up on it because the other alternatves work well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cgraff Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I heard through the grapevine that tungsten jigs are not 100% tungsten. they say that it is lead with a tungsten powder mixed in, the powder is recycled tungsten or an epoxy mixture as stated. what I was told is that molten tungsten would melt a hook. This is all hearsay so don't hold this to me. I am not a metalurgist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cgraff Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I found a website (onlinemetals.com). It has a chart of different metals and their melting points. Steel (the hook) has a melting point of 2500F. Tungsten is 6000F. I guess we'll never melt actual Tungsten in our shop or garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominousone Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 bismouth, has anyone tried that yet? or maybe tin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie525 Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 the new evolution jigs are made of tin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigmaster Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I have tinkered with tin and tin alloys......tin melts off at approx 450 F, in that neighborhood somewhere...it is much harder than lead, and therefore, it does not pour/flow as smoothly as lead...BUT, it does work....I have done simple castings with tin, and had success at pouring with it. It is about 2/3 the density of lead......which means your jigheads are actually lighter....which is not bad...makes the jig fall slower. it is a whole different animal than pouring lead...but doable with some patience JM www.daimonlures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacklenation Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 this is my first thread and have found very useful info on this site with mold pours and material. I have to think that tungsten weights are half the volume of lead weights when roughly half the size as well. I would like to pour an alternative to lead weights and i can see where tungsten can present a problem because of tungstens high melting point. i have to think there is a happy medium when using a tin based alloy with tungsten to achieve the same density as lead. the problem however is bonding the two elements together. i know a little about metalurgy and know that when two elements are melted together it actually lowers the melting point of the alloy. not sure why that is but it's the case for brass. does anyone know how i can pour and tin/tungsten based alloy without a blast furnace? i actually have one at my disposal but would like to know of other alternatives before i pursue it. thanks in advanced and really like the website. alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Ratz Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Here is a web site that will help you with the Tungsten powder that is mixed with an epoxy carrier to form the tungsten weights you see. Never tried it but looks interesting! http://www.tungstenheavypowder.com/ Randy Fat Ratz Custom Lures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 If you're willing to pay around $20 per lb. bismuth metal has similar melting and pouring properties as lead. It's melting point at 520* is actually less than lead at 622*. Weighs about 85% as much as lead compared to tin at 63%. Bismuth is a bit brittle but not a problem as long as you don't bounce above the surface rocks or other hard objects. Alloying with tin will strengthen and impart a shinier finish to castings though the alloy will be lightened in proportion to the amount of tin. Bismuth/tin alloys will have lower melting points than the pure metals and heating to 350* for powder paint may not be possible. Both metals are considered environmentally friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooksLikeSinbad Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 I heard through the grapevine that tungsten jigs are not 100% tungsten. I read in Gary Yamamoto's magazine, The Inside Line, that tru-tungsten brand uses 100% tungsten while most other brands use much less actual tungsten in their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Found this doing a Google of tungsten toxicity: "In the USSR since 1950, the toxicological and environmental effects of tungsten were investigated, including tungsten concentrations in natural and contaminated soils and water reservoirs; tungsten uptake by plants; and tungsten toxicity. Environmental regulations of tungsten pollution were then developed based on these studies: tungsten was assigned to the 3rd toxicity group (moderate dangerous chemical compounds) for air in the populated areas and soil, and to the 2nd toxicity group (higher dangerous chemical compounds) for water reservoirs." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacklenation Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 so the powder is just an additive used with epoxy? I can see how big companies like tru tungsten can use 100% of tungsten for there lures but i find it hard to believe. wouldn't the price of there products be more expensive than what they are costing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 According to the Tru-Tungsten website, their product is 97% metal. And from Google links, the melting point of tungsten is 6,192*F., a cast iron pot 2,795*F, and an aluminum(pure) mold 1,221*F. I actually melted an aluminum pot when first starting lead casting - good thing my work table had a sheet aluminum top. Still a big blob of aluminum welded on the table as a reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman35 Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Ok, let me chime in here, first off, tungsten is about as tough a metal as you can find... you will find it is used on missle nose cones... Most tungsten weights are 'machined" not molded... Nobody is going to be molding tungsten in there garage... unless your garage is the lockheed skunk works... my guess is the tungsten jigs and spinnerbaits are a powder epoxy mix... that would make it a really heavy plastic with a tungsten suspension... easy to figure out, grab your tungsten jig with pliers and squeeze, you do any damage then you got a mix... I find it all but impossible to mold a pure tungsten jighead... you would black out your whole town before you got the right tempurature... not only would the hooks be melted but the mold and garage too... This opens some doors though... Tungsten powder mixed with plastic in molds... As far as lead bans go, a jighead is still good anywhere, they just ban plain sinkers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Yes, I wonder if tungsten powder couldn't be integrated into a soft plastic lure? A little bit in the belly portion would give the lure a top-bottom orientation and provide casting & sinking weight? Oops, that might hurt my bizness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dampeoples Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Didn't a company do this with a bait already? Seems like the iCast coverage mentioned it, but maybe not. Wouldn't spend too much time with it, due to expense, and the sinking plastic that's been talked about before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sagacious Posted September 6, 2007 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Tungsten fishing weights are not machined, nor are they melted and poured in a mold. Unfortunately, the method of manufacture is beyond most individuals and home-businesses. Tungsten fishing weights (and virtually all other tungsten parts, rod, or plate used in manufacturing) are made by a process called 'compression forming.' Tungsten powder is poured into a die that is the desired shape of the finished product, and then using a hydraulically-powered ram or punch, the powder is compressed under enormous weight until the powder becomes one solid piece. The solid part is then ejected from the die, and carefully set aside. What you have then, is a tungsten fishing weight that is about as hard and strong as an aspirin tablet. To make it strong enough to be used, it needs to be 'sintered.' Sintering involves heating the tungsten part in a furnace until the compressed powder just barely starts to melt, which essentially solidifies the part, and makes it strong. Now, since tungsten's melting point is so unreasonably high, the tungsten powder used for compression forming has to be mixed with another metal that will melt during sintering. This is usually a few percent of copper, nickel, or iron, but other metals like tin are sometimes used. The small amount of copper powder (or other metal) in the mix is what actually (just barely) melts, and binds all the particles together. For some applications, the compressed tungsten powder/metal mix is so strong after compession, that it doesn't need to be sintered. Also, tungsten powder is very hard, so it tends to clump together and won't flow through the machinery very well and scratches the dies, and the addition of the copper/nickel/etc makes it less abrasive. Often a tiny amount of stearate or a special wax is added so the metal powder is easier to handle, and flows into the dies easier. If the part is going to be machined after sintering, the addition of copper and nickel make it MUCH easier to machine with cutting tools-- pure or nearly pure tungsten is very hard to work. Even very large slabs or or rods of tungsten for industrial/military use are made by the compression-forming process, and sintered. Tungsten compression presses are available to individuals......... if you want to spend the money. Don't quote me exactly, but compression presses start around $7000, specialty dies run about $500+ each (you'll need more dies than you think), and you'll need all kinds of other equipment to go along with the press. Add a controlled-atmosphere furnace to the list. Tungsten/copper powder usually has to be purchased in 100lb lots to get even a half-way decent price, and even then it's still expensive. Some individuals do actually make their own compression-formed tungsten rifle bullets (usually for long-range competition) at home in their garage, but as noted, it ain't cheap. The high price of tungsten weights is simply because they're expensive to make. Tungsten can be mixed with epoxy or thermo-setting resins to form parts, but why? First, you don't get the density of tungsten, because of the addition of lightweight epoxy resin, and you don't get the 'feel' of tungsten, because the resulting metal/epoxy mix isn't hard like tungsten. The most you get from a tungsten/epoxy mix is a "lead-free" weight or lure, and you're probably better off making do with tin. Tungsten can actually be melted using an arc-furnace. If you're very clever, you could possibly make a tungsten-melting arc-furnace out of an old stick welder-- this has been done by hobbyists to melt very-high-melting-point metals. However, once you did get it melted, you really couldn't do anything with it. You'd just get a small blob of tungsten. At best, you could melt down a couple tungsten fishing weights into a shiny round blob, and then show all your fishing buddies how smart you are . Hope this helps. Good luck! 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dampeoples Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 At best, you could melt down a couple tungsten fishing weights into a shiny round blob, and then show all your fishing buddies how smart you are .Hope this helps. Good luck! Oh boy, I'm on it!!! Thanks for the interesting read! I've never actually used tungsten weights, but have heard a lot about them. Of course, you could pick a pro, have him tell the world that he uses 'x' because of 'y', and have yourself some believers quick, which is what my first thought with tungsten weights was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon P. Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 What about alumilite vac 50 with tungsten powder? It's basically just resin with aluminum powder mixed in. Or do they make a tungsten version like that? Or could you mix resin and tungsten powder yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfart9999 Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 As far as lead bans go, a jighead is still good anywhere, they just ban plain sinkers... I know of 3 states that ban lead, not just sinkers but all lead, they are in the Northeast and the movement is growing. Rodney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon P. Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I know of 3 states that ban lead, not just sinkers but all lead, they are in the Northeast and the movement is growing. Rodney It's probably a good idea for most companies to start moving to tungsten, the lead bans will have a drastic effect on companies like Danielson and eagle claw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defish Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 A combination of tungsten beads (like used by fly tiers) placed on the hook and then cast lead, tin, etc. to fill the mold could have potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 It's probably a good idea for most companies to start moving to tungsten, the lead bans will have a drastic effect on companies like Danielson and eagle claw It was not supported by the sport fishing industry.I'm sure the "tree huggers and loon lovers" will try again and fail. Just like "global warming"- it seems groups today have a narrative they are supporting- w/out facts and science. Just look @ the pollution that continues today in our rivers from endocrine disruptors that have effected humans and fish. One is birth control residues that out current water filtration systems cannot remove. I don't hear or see the fanatics yaking about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
