incompatible paints and layers epoxi enamel acylics metalics and hard coat

[goldenshinner]

I am interested in fully understanding compatibility and long term stability issues that can arrise by various painting methods. For example as I understand the "Curring" of certain epoxis and enamels results in a top layer that chemicaly similar to wax. subsequent layering of water based over this class of paint would result in a week bonding layer that would peel over time or possibly fail. perhaps there are tricks to getting non-compatible paints to adhere by for instance preping with Xylenes or layering before the underlayer has cured(normaly not recomended). I am also linking(uploading) a few random examples i have laying around of paint faluire. I am not an expert just a novice that is currious enough to get in trouble. also note that the lures i am uploading, are just for study and furtherment of the lure building hobie. no insult is intended to the makers of them(I actualy liked the lures enough to buy them!)

[goldenshinner]

ok here are the pics. I reduced file size and maximized for efficient band with transfer. enjoy the pics.

here we see a compleate failure of paint. the clear coat is fine. but it is failling from the underlayers. I would appreaciate any recomendations thoughts or comments.

here we see crazing under the hard clear coat. this lure was perfect when I purchased it from a local start up company. size of lure is in excess of 13inches. paint job is realy nice otherwise. this lure never saw the water even once. and has been stored indoors at constant temp and humidity.

Finnaly we see what was an amazing comercial run of golden metalic musky bait. also never used. just siting around. and the paint job started flakeing. when I examined it the stuff came off in large sections. perhaps this one was some experimental run with a new metalic process that was not compatible with plastic base.

again any coments or ideas would be helpfull.I know allot of the purists are just shooting one brand, but I am interested in mixing several brands and classes of paints, and would like any advance warning or insight. thanks.

[longball]

I achieved the middle pic this weekend by using Kraylon clear to tack down some flake. I would do that so I can hand place the flake before a clear coat. The lure coat reacted with it and caused exactly what you have shown. Eventhough, yours could also be flexing of a bait under a clear coat to cause cracking, since the bait is 13" long. I cant really tell from the pic if it is wrinkling like mine or cracking. It looks like a wrinkle though to me.

[BobP]

I think I'd be honor bound to bring the failure to the attention of the lure builders, esp if they're local. They probably know what happened and have corrected the problem in the interim but if they haven't, they probably won't be in business much longer. If the baits haven't been fished hard or undergone some extreme environmental stress, I'd expect new baits. And an apology.

[woodieb8]

first bait i imagine is hardwood. the sealing process if any failed. thats why the lift.. the 2nd bait looks as to much paint applied before allowing enuff dry time. 3rd bait no adhesion, metallics can be tricky a good hard clear is needed. these are just my opinions and yes ive been there before.

[goldenshinner]

thanks for the coments any others would be appreaciated. any one got any thoughts on incompatibility? like layering of Laquers, epoxies, enamels , acryilc enamels, acrylic latex etc.

[SeminoleFan]

thanks for the coments any others would be appreaciated. any one got any thoughts on incompatibility? like layering of Laquers, epoxies, enamels , acryilc enamels, acrylic latex etc.

I have thought about this for a day or so and I think alot of the problems with incompatibilty may come from not letting the bait rest during the manufacturing process. In Resting I am refering to letting the sealing agent cure, base coat cure, final paint job cure before the final clear coat process. Also, Humidity can play havoc on the above process. just my

Very Interesting post and It has me thinking more than I need too..

[goldenshinner]

Rick that might be part of the solution. I just had a discussion with a paint chemist about this problem. it is fairly complex. I never realized how important it is to alow each layer to "cure" as oxigen is required as the enamles and other types of paints set up. but the Wax by product formation may be more at the center of the problem of using high quality automotive and enamel paints. Im interested in using these as they produce higher bonding strength than acrylics. and im concerned with weak underlayers.

[SeminoleFan]

Rick that might be part of the solution. I just had a discussion with a paint chemist about this problem. it is fairly complex. I never realized how important it is to alow each layer to "cure" as oxigen is required as the enamles and other types of paints set up. but the Wax by product formation may be more at the center of the problem of using high quality automotive and enamel paints. Im interested in using these as they produce higher bonding strength than acrylics. and im concerned with weak underlayers.

Any time you put a layer on you really need to let it rest. I am sure your chemist told you that each type of paint or chemical overlay needs to "sweat". By sweat I mean that gasses are released during curing of the product and if trapped underneath another product it will cause problems, especially if you apply a top coat to a unit that has not fully cured.

Good Luck and let me know how it all turns out for you!